European Economics Thread

[horse]

This is what I don't get

I thought gas prices are at pre war levels?

The propaganda fog is so thick, we cannot see anything.

Best we can do is listen to the situation on the ground.

If BASF says they were downsizing some operations in Europe, and that could be permanent, then this is an extremely serious situation for industrial Europe.

If some factories close, or are idle for too long, they probably will not come back online when things return to normal, whenever that will be.

 

[AndrewS]

The propaganda fog is so thick, we cannot see anything.

Best we can do is listen to the situation on the ground.

If BASF says they were downsizing some operations in Europe, and that could be permanent, then this is an extremely serious situation for industrial Europe.

If some factories close, or are idle for too long, they probably will not come back online when things return to normal, whenever that will be.

Current natural gas prices are still 3x higher in Europe than the 2014-2020 average.

There was a reason why the world moved away from burning oil in electricity power stations.

 

[gelgoog]

440 billion euros is enough to build like 88 nuclear power plants of 1.2GW each. Like 106 GW total.
Belarus built two NPPs with a $10 billion USD loan from Russia.
The whole generation capacity of Germany's electric grid is supposedly some 211 GW.

And that is just this year's bill. You will also have next year's bill, and the year after that.
There simply is not enough LNG capacity and ships in the world to replace Russian gas sales to Europe. There might be in 2025 or 2026, after Qatar and the US expand production, but not right now.

The Germans have no one to blame but themselves really. First they had no real alternatives to burning natural gas. Merkel claimed she would expand nuclear power when she went into power, but then caved in to public opinion as usual for her. Then they dragged their heels approving Nord Stream 2 after asking the Russians to build it. Both the CDU and SPD governments. Then they let the US sabotage Nord Stream 1 and 2. They joined in the sanctions regime.

 

[pmc]

Best we can do is listen to the situation on the ground.

If BASF says they were downsizing some operations in Europe, and that could be permanent, then this is an extremely serious situation for industrial Europe.

If some factories close, or are idle for too long, they probably will not come back online when things return to normal, whenever that will be.

I dont think Europeans fully understand the price of this policy. how things will return to normal when all that printed money gives opportunity to foreigners to transform Europe according to there interests. and it wont be football clubs and FIFA type things.
Germany can hide behind Turkey but others not.

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[sunnymaxi]

Biggest drop in income in the EU since the beginning of the great depression in 1929..

 

[Dolcevita]

Why is Lufthansa flying over Russian Airspace? Have sanctions been lifted?

 

[pmc]

Ski resorts can potentially lose alot of customers.

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[gelgoog]

Why is Lufthansa flying over Russian Airspace? Have sanctions been lifted?

They have not. Initially the sanctions applied just to passenger flights but then they were extended to cargo as well.
These are Russian counter sanctions that Russia put into place after the EU closed their airspace to Russian aircraft flights.
My guess is that aircraft deviated from its flight plan. And Russia did not vigorously enforce it for whatever reason.

 

[sunnymaxi]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611001200400560129

Nobody wants to confront the truth: Britain is becoming a poor country"

"We are likely to soon see a new generation of young, ambitious British people seek their fortunes abroad" - translation: young Brits will head for Asia & elsewhere as.... economic refugees,

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611001200400560129

Nobody wants to confront the truth: Britain is becoming a poor country"

"We are likely to soon see a new generation of young, ambitious British people seek their fortunes abroad" - translation: young Brits will head for Asia & elsewhere as.... economic refugees,

I was curious to see if the author displayed even a modicum of self-awareness given the headline, but the result was exactly as I expected: Just Thatcherite garbage and <other party> is responsible for <current problem>. If he were truly self-aware he would have written something like

Britain as we know it faces an existential crisis. Crippled by scores of pathologies, from an imploding health service to sliding real wages, our status as one of the wealthiest, most civilised countries in the world is at risk for the first time since the Industrial Revolution. But the reality is our "civilization" was always illusory and we are, in truth, a nation of fortunate thieves. The dumb luck that granted us the Industrial Revolution allowed us to plunder and exploit the rest of the world on a scale not seen before or since. But those days are over and our luck has run out; the world has advanced beyond our ability to rob and the theft that sustained us is no longer possible. Our only choice now is to accept our meagre lot and bear our degradation with what grace we can summon... which we will surely fail to do because failure is all that is left to us now.