Espionage involving China

zyklon

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm not sure if this is the right thread but it seems he is accusing China of attempting to engage in biological warfare for economic gain.


The applicable or proper term here would probably be agroterrorism or agrowarfare, depending on who you ask and what level of legitimacy you want to attach to such measures.

In this case, Kash Patel is almost certainly exaggerating and sensationalizing the case of some dumb grad students or postdocs who failed to properly complete their custom declarations.

If you're actually looking to screw with a country's food supply, this would be the wrong vector. You'd probably want to embed or recruit assets at a company like Bayer or Corteva, if not somewhere even closer to the actual crops or livestock.
 

ENTED64

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yeah if reports about the case are correct it seems overblown. Apparently the "dangerous biological pathogen" in question is already endemic in the US and in fact probably originated in the US and only spread to the rest of the world later. This individual seems to have tried to take a shortcut to avoid filling out paperwork or something which was a dumb move and he really should have known better. However it doesn't seem like an actual attempt to commit agroterrorism or anything like that.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
The applicable or proper term here would probably be agroterrorism or agrowarfare, depending on who you ask and what level of legitimacy you want to attach to such measures.

In this case, Kash Patel is almost certainly exaggerating and sensationalizing the case of some dumb grad students or postdocs who failed to properly complete their custom declarations.

If you're actually looking to screw with a country's food supply, this would be the wrong vector. You'd probably want to embed or recruit assets at a company like Bayer or Corteva, if not somewhere even closer to the actual crops or livestock.
Absolutely, this is another case where the FBI went on it without knowing anything about it just like the time they went into labs with Chinese directors in MD Anderson asking if they're more concerned with curing Chinese cancer or American cancer.
 

gpt

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Leaked document shows FSB refers to China as an enemy and serious threat to its security:
- China tries to recruit Russian scientists
- Wants intel on Ukraine war, particularly performance of Western weapons systems
- Targets Russian scientists, pilots, and experts in specific fields such as aviation, aerohydrodynamics, control systems and aeroelasticity
- Interested in Wagner mercenaries' experience
- Worried China will make claims on Russian territory
 

JimmyMcFoob

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Leaked document shows FSB refers to China as an enemy and serious threat to its security:
- China tries to recruit Russian scientists
- Wants intel on Ukraine war, particularly performance of Western weapons systems
- Targets Russian scientists, pilots, and experts in specific fields such as aviation, aerohydrodynamics, control systems and aeroelasticity
- Interested in Wagner mercenaries' experience
- Worried China will make claims on Russian territory
It's in the nature of intelligence agencies to be paranoid, especially the KGB-descended FSB. I would be very concerned if they were even more lax than they have demonstrated to be. Perhaps they should be focusing more on Ukrainian saboteurs rather than chasing after China.
 

MortyandRick

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Leaked document shows FSB refers to China as an enemy and serious threat to its security:
- China tries to recruit Russian scientists
- Wants intel on Ukraine war, particularly performance of Western weapons systems
- Targets Russian scientists, pilots, and experts in specific fields such as aviation, aerohydrodynamics, control systems and aeroelasticity
- Interested in Wagner mercenaries' experience
- Worried China will make claims on Russian territory
Always ask oneself when something like this comes out.
Is it authentic? Who does this help the most?
I would be very surprised if all it took was this article to drive a wedge between Russia and China.
Phrases like "we cannot verify the authenticity but reviewed with several western intelligence agencies who all said it was authentic" or they can't put a date on it but it appears to be after 2023

Makes it more of a fluff piece than anything else.
 

defenceman

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hi,
if we go by virtue of Paranoia CIAs secret room must be having a electronic intelligence
gathering against their near and dear intelligence agency MI6 same vice Versa for MI6 even
Mossad is trying or may be having infiltrate CIA so every other agency have some back up
plan for their country
thank you
 

zyklon

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Leaked document shows FSB refers to China as an enemy and serious threat to its security:
- China tries to recruit Russian scientists
- Wants intel on Ukraine war, particularly performance of Western weapons systems
- Targets Russian scientists, pilots, and experts in specific fields such as aviation, aerohydrodynamics, control systems and aeroelasticity
- Interested in Wagner mercenaries' experience
- Worried China will make claims on Russian territory

1. Even if the document in question wasn't materially altered or outright fabricated as a part of a state-sponsored disinformation campaign, it should be pretty obvious to any observer — who is even somewhat informed — as to who would have access to such a leaked document (e.g. CIA/NSA, SIS/GCHQ, GUR/SBU), and why they would be motivated to disclose it to the New York Times.

2. The Russian intelligence community is not a singular organism or exactly small compared to those of most nations, and naturally it's constituent elements — never mind individual experts and authorities — are going to have all sorts of views and perspectives.

Some of those takes will inevitably diverge significantly from widely accepted narratives and well established policies that dictate how Moscow actually behaves.

3. To be fair, the Russian intelligence community, and more broadly speaking, the Russian national security establishment is subject to a great deal of savage, if not occasionally dysfunctional levels of competition.

The "aviation accident" that killed Yevgeny Prigozhin and some of his esteemed colleagues is both a recent and visible example of such competition. Such intense internal competition also tends to incentivize the creation and dissemination of narratives that may or may not reasonably reflect reality.

I obviously wouldn't know, but it's perfectly possible that this document was politicized analysis built upon embellished reporting intended to convince higher ups that a specific program ought to be allocated more funding.

In this sense, some Russian elites aren't too different from their American counterparts.

4. The Chinese and Russian intelligence communities are known to collaborate on certain shared objectives. However, that doesn't mean there isn't going to be competition. If the Americans spy on Israel and NATO allies like Germany and France, the Chinese are going to spy on the Russians and Pakistanis, and obviously it works the other way too.

Generally speaking, the only countries that the US isn't really supposed to spy on due to existing agreements are FIVEYE countries like the UK and Canada, but that is also the case because London and Ottawa will follow Washington's lead, if not commands, on most, if not almost all defense and security issues of mutual concern (Ukraine being one of a few exceptions, but also the most prominent counterexample).

Not to say the US doesn't spy on FIVEYE countries at all, but there isn't much of a need for the CIA or NSA to spy on those countries when they can literally just ask their British, Canadian or Australian counterparts to investigate their own citizens and officials, and report back should something appear amiss.

So if there ever comes a day when Beijing decides to effectively stop spying on Moscow because their relationship has reached a similar level of proximity, then Washington is going to have a much, much bigger problem to worry about.
 
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