East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

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Cyclist

Junior Member
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Medias are now changing what China says regarding ADIZ.

They change from "defensive emergency measure" to "emergency military measures".

Just in case if you haven't read what China MOD said:
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Announcement of the Aircraft Identification Rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone of the P.R.C.
( Source: Xinhua ) 2013-November-23 10:00

　　BEIJING, Nov. 23 (Xinhua) -- China's Ministry of National Defense issued an announcement of the aircraft identification rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone of the People's Republic of China. Following is the full text:

　　Announcement of the Aircraft Identification Rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone of the People's Republic of China

　　Issued by the Ministry of National Defense on November 23

　　The Ministry of National Defense of the People's Republic of China, in accordance with the Statement by the Government of the People's Republic of China on Establishing the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone, now announces the Aircraft Identification Rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone as follows:

　　First, aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone must abide by these rules.

　　Second, aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone must provide the following means of identification:

　　1. Flight plan identification. Aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone should report the flight plans to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China or the Civil Aviation Administration of China.

　　2. Radio identification. Aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone must maintain the two-way radio communications, and respond in a timely and accurate manner to the identification inquiries from the administrative organ of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone or the unit authorized by the organ.

　　3. Transponder identification. Aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone, if equipped with the secondary radar transponder, should keep the transponder working throughout the entire course.

　　4. Logo identification. Aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone must clearly mark their nationalities and the logo of their registration identification in accordance with related international treaties.

　　Third, aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone should follow the instructions of the administrative organ of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone or the unit authorized by the organ. China's armed forces will adopt defensive emergency measures to respond to aircraft that do not cooperate in the identification or refuse to follow the instructions.

　　Fourth, the Ministry of National Defense of the People's Republic of China is the administrative organ of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone.

　　Fifth, the Ministry of National Defense of the People's Republic of China is responsible for the explanation of these rules.

　　Sixth, these rules will come into force at 10 a.m. November 23, 2013.
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port_08

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Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

CB27N0066H_2013%E8%B3%87%E6%96%99%E7%85%A7%E7%89%87_N71_copy2.JPG


China PLA saying they are monitoring the flight over ADIZ. Do they have the capability to monitor and control the zone? What if civilian airliners didn't follow the rule? What will happen? Will they be shot down? Does the PLA dare?
 
SampanViking

SampanViking

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Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

port_08 said:
CB27N0066H_2013%E8%B3%87%E6%96%99%E7%85%A7%E7%89%87_N71_copy2.JPG


China PLA saying they are monitoring the flight over ADIZ. Do they have the capability to monitor and control the zone? What if civilian airliners didn't follow the rule? What will happen? Will they be shot down? Does the PLA dare?
Click to expand...

Hmm Not sure if you fully understand the nature and purpose of an ADIZ.

For Airliners, the main requirement in effect, is that when planes are passing through the zone, they will need to include Chinese ATC in the distribution list for the flight plan. Airliners are not interested in politics and China will not be interested in playing politics with them. Any Airliner that fails to comply with ATC is asking for trouble and would find a range of bureaucratic measures taken against them, none of which involve being blown out of the sky!
Any Commercial Flight approaching from the the Zone into Chinese Airspace will of course have given a flight plan in advance and will of course respect Chinese ATC. Any Jet liner that did not would cause a major security alert in any country.

Military and Civil Government Aircraft are a different story and this is where the fun begins. It is true that Japanese Aircraft enforcing its own ADIZ will of course need to identify themselves to any Chinese plane being intercepted in order to do its job. This creates a wealth of potential situations.

I did note that the Military Controllers of the ECSADIZ can delegate or otherwise authorise other bodies to act in its name. Presumably this could include a Chinese Civil Aircraft.

I can foresee a Civil Aircraft flying in the vicinity of the Diayou and triggering an interception from Japan. The Civil Plane can then identify itself as an Chinese ATC and make demand of the Japanese planes to comply. The Japanese planes will need to identify themselves as a part of their mission and this will be enough for China to claim that Japan has recognised the ECSADIZ. If of course Japanese war planes were to vector on an intercept course with the Chinese plane and not identify itself, then you have a potentially very dangerous situation, in which the Chinese could indeed claim that they had an Air Defence emergency and had no option but to take appropriate emergency measures.

My guess is that this sort of sophisticated game of Face/Chicken is how the zone issue will play out for the foreseeable future and I have no doubt that a number of surprises and curve balls will be thrown on a regular basis.
 
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getready

Senior Member
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

xiabonan said:
"The US government is considering whether the new rules (of China's ADIZ) applies to civil aviation ........in the mean time US air carriers are being advised to take steps they deem necessary to operate safely in th East China Sea region"

While Abe's government just directly told Japanese air carriers to ignore the ADIZ. In fact two of the largest Japanese air carriers already submitted their flight plans to China but later withdrew it because "The Japanese government told them safety will be ensured".
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Hmm. I'm actually more interested in this part than the b52 non events. What are the consequences for those 2 Jp airlines given I presume all other airlines have complied. Increased expenses? Less business? Fines?
 
nicky

nicky

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Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

"Japanese fighters and a patrol plane followed on Nov. 28."

"The South Korean government also said that it had flown surveillance aircraft through the zone on Wednesday without alerting Beijing, a flight that Chinese officials said that they had monitored. Like Japan, South Korea claims sovereignty over territory in the zone, but enjoys warmer ties with Beijing than Japan does."
 
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xiabonan

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Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

I'm actually curious about whether Japan and SK's ADIZ actually overlap and which side the US will take in that case, haha.

But anyway this is irrelevant to this thread. However here's something that's relevant.

In a press briefing today (28th November Beijing Time), when asked about comments regarding "Japan and the United States may request China to dismantle its ADIZ together with the International Community", China's MoD spokesman said "Japan had set up her ADIZ as early as 1969, she has absolutely no right whatsoever requesting China to dismantle her own ADIZ. If we talk about dismantling (of ADIZ), we would like to ask Japan to dismantle hers first, and we will consider (dismantle our own) 44 years later"

That's some 'attitude' there by the MoD indeed.

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This is the news link on ifeng.com, a HK press. Sorry I can't find the English news yet, but I've translated the most interesting (based on personal opinion that is) part of that whole briefing.
 
lcloo

lcloo

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Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

xiabonan said:
I'm actually curious about whether Japan and SK's ADIZ actually overlap and which side the US will take in that case, haha.

But anyway this is irrelevant to this thread. However here's something that's relevant.

In a press briefing today (28th November Beijing Time), when asked about comments regarding "Japan and the United States may request China to dismantle its ADIZ together with the International Community", China's MoD spokesman said "Japan had set up her ADIZ as early as 1969, she has absolutely no right whatsoever requesting China to dismantle her own ADIZ. If we talk about dismantling (of ADIZ), we would like to ask Japan to dismantle hers first, and we will consider (dismantle our own) 44 years later"

That's some 'attitude' there by the MoD indeed.

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This is the news link on ifeng.com, a HK press. Sorry I can't find the English news yet, but I've translated the most interesting (based on personal opinion that is) part of that whole briefing.
Click to expand...

I saw that on TV just now, exactly these are the words from the MOD spokeman.
 
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xiabonan

Junior Member
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Also, the PLAAF spokesperson said today that the PLAAF "organized a KJ2000 AWACS and numerous Su-30s and J11s to carry out patrolling mission in the East Sea ADIZ today" and that "Chinese air forces are in constant high alert state and will take corresponding actions according to different level of aerial threat" and "safeguard national aerial defense"

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getready

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Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

nicky said:
"Japanese fighters and a patrol plane followed on Nov. 28."

"The South Korean government also said that it had flown surveillance aircraft through the zone on Wednesday without alerting Beijing, a flight that Chinese officials said that they had monitored. Like Japan, South Korea claims sovereignty over territory in the zone, but enjoys warmer ties with Beijing than Japan does."
Click to expand...

South Korea has a claim on diaoyu islands? News to me
 
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