CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

mangchaocs

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On US carriers the C-2s are used for VIP transportation and a more important task: to carry the turbofan engines.

The heavy helicopters like CH-53 have much less cargo weight, cruise speed and ferry range than C-2s. So C-2s are irreplaceable by helicopters.

C-2s were finally decommissioned when V-22s entered service.
My data might be not correct, but as far as I found, the cargo weight of C-2 Is less than 5 tons. CH-53K is 14 tons+.
 

supersnoop

Major
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Carrier cargo aircraft would probably not even be developed until a second a CATOBAR carrier is deployed I think.
Logically speaking, as the first CATOBAR carrier, it is unlikely to deploy on far off missions any time soon.
I think there will be an S2/S3-type ASuW version of KJ-600 sooner as seen in some magazine sketches. Y-8Q was spotted with a smaller MAD boom, related?
 

Tam

Brigadier
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I'd say 003's 'mast' isn't particularly an integrated one in a strict sense, as all it houses are ESM, IFF and perhaps some search radars and misc. antennae, while the primary sensors i.e. the S- and possibly X-band radars are technically part of the island's superstructure.

So unlike the 055 where, apart from the large S-band housed below the bridge, it has a bona fide integrated mast with the rest of the radars (C, L and X, if I'm correct) inside it.

003's island is "cleaner looking", for sure, but that's more of a result of the 4-way AESA arrangement that it has, while the Ford's island is 3.


Further to that, the SPS-48 is also used on the San Antonios, housed inside the rear integrated mast -

View attachment 91280

But beginning with Fort Lauderdale and leading up to the Flight II batch of newer SAs they've reverted back to the traditional steel mast and exposed sensors -

View attachment 91281

So on the matter of integrated masts, I think it isn't the USN is averse to employing them at scale from a technical standpoint, so much as the cost-benefit doesn't seem that attractive to the Navy compared to other major navies.

On 003, the X-band radars are the smaller ones higher than the S-band radars and is integrated to the island superstructure.

The crown or mast should contain only the CEC, IFF and ESM, and possibly a SATCOM on top along with a TACAN.

The reason why the 003 mast looks cleaner is because CEC, IFF, and ESM are implemented as flat panel phase arrays, whereas the USN still uses omnidirectional, therefore, non stealthy shapes for its IFF and ESM. USN CEC is now third generation and is in phase array form, but in previous forms the CEC uses an omnidirectional choke array. Despite the CEC now being in four flat panels, the other instruments are still omnidirectional and is better suited to being attached on top of an arm so this means the CEC are made to hang like four panels under the IFF ring instead of being embedded into the mast (Shandong and 055).

Another issue is where are you going to hang your rotating navigation radars. With an integrated mast you either have to set them either at the base of the mast which lowers their radar horizon and the radars height, or you have to find a way to attach it outside of the mast. The 055 actually started with the forward navigation radar at the base, but later they moved the navigation radar right to the top of the mast. You need a sharp detailed pic of the 055 to see the navigation radar. On the earlier San Antonio, the navigation radars were at or near the base of the masts but when they reverted back to the tree mast, the navigation radars are placed high on the tree.

On 003, its likely the navigation radars have not been installed yet but its also possible they might have flat paneled it and integrated it as fixed right at the island superstructure. Time will tell after the ship completes its refit. Or they might simply find a way to attach a rotary navigation radars like a hack on to the island superstructure.
 

Helius

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[snip]

On 003, its likely the navigation radars have not been installed yet but its also possible they might have flat paneled it and integrated it as fixed right at the island superstructure. Time will tell after the ship completes its refit. Or they might simply find a way to attach a rotary navigation radars like a hack on to the island superstructure.
I reckon this would probably be the spot where at least one of the nav radars would be installed, if we have the 075 to go by -

nav radar.jpg
 

tphuang

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Carrier cargo aircraft would probably not even be developed until a second a CATOBAR carrier is deployed I think.
Logically speaking, as the first CATOBAR carrier, it is unlikely to deploy on far off missions any time soon.
I think there will be an S2/S3-type ASuW version of KJ-600 sooner as seen in some magazine sketches. Y-8Q was spotted with a smaller MAD boom, related?
Why are these things really needed with the advent of more and more advanced drones? You do need kj600 to provide command and control. But in the future, with ai and secure communications, that kj600 can direct other aew and asw drones.

Even cargo planes probably can be done by drones. We have seen a cargo drone in the uav thread recently.
 

supersnoop

Major
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Why are these things really needed with the advent of more and more advanced drones? You do need kj600 to provide command and control. But in the future, with ai and secure communications, that kj600 can direct other aew and asw drones.

Even cargo planes probably can be done by drones. We have seen a cargo drone in the uav thread recently.
MQ-25 Stingray is essentially a cargo drone, so this is probably coming.

I do not think drone tech is sophisticated enough to do Anti Submarine warfare missions yet, at least not in the near term.
Since ROCN and Australia are both threatening to put more subs in the water in the sooner rather than later, along with Japan's already decent fleet, PLAN cannot wait for the technology to mature.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Wow, I was completely wrong about cap vs flywheel.... turns out cap actually has higher energy density but much lower power density compared to flywheel?
I was not accurate by saying "super capacitor at the moment of writing does not have the required energy density."

I should have said energy density by mass or specific energy instead.

Strictly speaking power and energy density is (by default) defined as per unit volume. When measured by unit mass, they are density by mass. Either clarify it by suffixing "by mass" or use "specific" as prefix.

Super capacitor is higher in both power and energy density than flywheel, but lower in specific energy and equal in specific power. It is similar to LH/LO has higher specific impulse while LOX/Kerosin has higher specific impulse by mass.

EM launcher choose flywheel because of high specific energy, that is for storing the same amount of energy, the flywheel is lighter.

Another problem with supercapacitor for catapult is that in today's technology, supercapacitor system can not be made large (by total energy) enough compared to flywheel. This has nothing to do with the density, but system limitation.
 
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