Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Rettam Stacf

Junior Member
Registered Member
The risk of over-hyping a vaccine.

Doubts over Oxford vaccine as it fails to stop coronavirus in animal trials
  • A trial of the vaccine in rhesus macaque monkeys did not stop the animals from catching the virus and has raised questions about the vaccine's likely human efficacy and ongoing development.
  • "All of the vaccinated monkeys treated with the Oxford vaccine became infected when challenged as judged by recovery of virus genomic RNA from nasal secretions," said Dr William Haseltine, a former Harvard Medical School professor who had a pivotal role in the development of early HIV/Aids treatments.
  • The trials investigating the immune response to the Oxford vaccine in rhesus macaque monkeys were carried out at the National Institute of Health's Rocky Mountain Laboratory in the US, with initial results published in a press release at the end of April.
  • This is in contrast to a Chinese vaccine trial in April that did appear to stop the development of Covid-19 in monkeys. That trial, by Sinovac Biotech, a privately held Beijing-based company, used a modified version of the full Sars-Cov-2 virus in its vaccine, while the Oxford vaccine uses a common cold virus to try and provoke an immune response.
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This put India in a bind as the Indian vaccine manufacturer, the Pune-based Serum Institute, had announced plans to manufacture a four to five million doses by end-May in India. It is one of seven global institutions that will manufacture the vaccine being developed by the Oxford Vaccine Group.

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
A point to stress is that China did solve its COVID19 crisis. The whole country went significantly longer without a new case than the incubation period of the virus.

China is only experiencing some re-occurrence because of imported cases.

As more countries contain their domestic initial outbreak, they will be in the same boat as China, so I expect the international sentiment to turn against America’s total abdication of responsibly in handling the crisis.

Right now every world leader knows the truth despite the ridiculous western MSM campaign to smear China. None of them see any need to cross the notoriously petty and vindictive Trump to stand up for China, but it will be a very different situation when their own national self interest become increasingly threatened by American inaction.

After having enduring the massive pain of lockdowns and social distancing to bring their own domestic infections under control, you will have to be crazy to thing the Europeans will just simply silently accept re-infection by the US because the US refuses to endure the pain needed to lock down properly and deal with the virus properly.
 

solarz

Brigadier
A point to stress is that China did solve its COVID19 crisis. The whole country went significantly longer without a new case than the incubation period of the virus.

China is only experiencing some re-occurrence because of imported cases.

When Wuhan can test every single one of its 11 million citizens in 10 days over 6 new confirmed cases, frankly there is no chance for any new outbreak to occur.

It is utterly egregious that in the so-called free press, I cannot find a single mention of this accomplishment. Had I not been frequenting this forum and not following certain youtube channels, I would never have known about this either!
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
How would you even know this? This is only your guess. I am very suspicious that is their goal. You think China funds billions to state media to enhance soft power by...keeping a low profile? No. That is illogical.
It spends the money to influence Chinese people both in China and overseas. Nothing illogical about that.

No. That's your guess. My strategy is to destroy their credibility and put them on the back foot so they're on the defense. I don't have to bite them. I just have to bring up extremely inconvenient facts while concern trolling them about transparency and such.... truncated quote to save characters

I don't understand why this seems so hard for others to grasp. Exposing those lies are easy and high value tasks that destroy their credibility, which is the BASIS of influence.
To be frank, the US destroys its own credibility just fine and its media is absolutely vicious about calling out the mistakes of their own government. I don't think it's even necessary to add another voice into the mix and if you do, it shouldn't be a Chinese one for everyone to take the story from "The US is incompetent" to "China's trying to brainwash you!" Everything you said is out there and people can read about it if they like, but it gets drowned out by their mainstream media. We're not talking about telling people something they otherwise couldn't find out in order to educated them; we're talking about booming your outlet louder than their national outlets, otherwise, there's still no novelty to what you're trying to add.

No. That's your guess, again. You seem to think my strategy is to scream at America. It's not. It's to destroy their veneer of credibility so that their message are ignored, which takes away a lot of their power... truncated for characters
Their own medias point out anti-China racism and they don't even listen; what makes you think they will listen to it coming from a Chinese outlet? Chinese media points out these illogical hypocrisies to the Chinese audience, but you've no way of getting heard over local mainstream media.

For example who the hell in HK during the 2019 protests would look to America/Britain for "help" if it was WIDELY known that America overthrows democratically elected governments? ... truncated quote to save characters
HK is a mistake long in the making. I don't know how much HK people know or don't know because I've never been there and don't know their media but I feel at this point that it's not a matter of informational education. They will think that what the US is doing is good even if they see live videos of American soldiers gutting women and children in Iraq. The CCP should have acted on HK decades ago (maybe it didn't because it needed HK's role in China's ascent, I don't know) and now there's no easy answer. It's a whole different beast than global outreach.
Your point about advantage is illogical. China knows much about America due to the English language being used in science, tech, entertainment, etc. This one way advantage will remain whether Chinese love America or not.
Mostly from entertainment and actually going there for study or work exchange, etc... but hate clouds knowledge and judgement. The Chinese are more readily willing and able to learn about America when they're not constantly blasted with how evil the country is. It's a delicate balance that you want your citizens to see that this is no friendly country to cozy up to, but also to not blow blood vessels in your brain whenever you hear their name. Americans have lost that; whenever they hear China being mentioned, they don't want to hear anything else except how evil it is and if the article talks about something China has done right, they immediately stop reading within 2 sentences and say it's CCP-funded crap even if it's CNN or something. That is the attitude to avoid if you want to learn and understand your enemy.
Now, you failed to count for the disadvantages. One example is racism. I don't know how much anti Chinese racism is covered in Chinese media but there seem to be a whole lot of gullible Chinese who white worship and get burned... truncated to save characters
Foreign-worship in China never comes from the belief that those people are friendly towards China; it comes from admiration for their technology and romanticism about their culture/society through entertainment and media. I remember that a while back, Dolce and Gabbana got ruined in China for their "racist?" commercial and the subsequent leak of the owners' hate-filled rage message against the Chinese. This is a good example of correctly using media to inform Chinese citizens. But as I said, there is a fine line to walk between properly informing people and charging them with too much hate for them to learn. It's not perfect the way things are but I see way bigger mistakes out there.
On a related note about HK...
I bring this up because the socialism/communism was brought down in many nations by the CIA's soft power/psychological warfare... truncated to save characters
Are you talking about Chinese media control inside China or globally? I thought we were addressing the later issue because it's quite clear that the Chinese people in the mainland are quite well united by Chinese media.

And you won't because that's not what I'm advocating. I have not ever advocating spreading racism, lies, about other nations the way western media does about China. I do advocate for spreading awareness of racism against Chinese/Asians in general.
Spreading awareness is easier said than done; Western outlets themselves describe these racist attacks and don't seem to have much of an effect on their citizens.

Gain control of the head positions of major local news eg board, editor, etc. Control funding. That's what the CIA did starting in the Cold War. It continues today.
This is the funny one. Easier said than done. The US can do it because after WWII, it basically controlled Europe and is ideologically aligned with them. China doesn't have that luxury and its communist tag rings alarm bells everywhere. With that cowbell around its neck threading lightly is a must.

Irrelevant. This assumes they would go to great lengths to distort the message, which is highly unlikely. There's no motive.
They would and they do. The EU was just as alarmed about China as the US was... before Trump screwed up the alliance. If these countries saw red China spreading a message in their countries, they would react. That resistance could be getting softer and softer, though, in the Trump era.

If they know it's your content. A key lesson of propaganda is to be undetectable/subtle and have a large Overton Window. If, for example, the news outlet attacks the "Chinese regime" and/or praises capitalism occasionally, it becomes much harder to whack a mole.
Very expensive, difficult move by you to create and set up media outlet, very easy and cheap for your opponents to ban it when they do find out. With investigative journalism today, your ownership and allegiance will be discovered with your first pro-China article... if it even takes that long.

Secondly, there's a whole world online that the pentagon has begun to weaponize over a decade ago... truncated for characters
not too familiar with this realm since I don't use these platforms but generally, online discussions attract like-minded people. Pro-China people go to ones that laud China and anti-China people go to CIA-funded ones because they are most comfortable there. China certainly has these forums that foreigners can join but their popularity is unknown to me and popularity is key.

Anyway, as you were complaining about the incompetence of the CCP, they were busy delivering the results you wanted to see:
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Europe is abandoning Trump on the world stage as it turns away from the US toward China
  • Recent polling suggests Europeans are turning away from the US under President Donald Trump's leadership.
  • Public opinion toward America has declined in major European countries since the start of the coronavirus pandemic.
  • Seventy-six percent of Germans in a new poll said their view of America had deteriorated because of the crisis.
  • Roughly equal numbers of Germans in the poll favored maintaining close relationships with China and the US in a head-to-head matchup.
  • One poll last week found that just 2% of French people trusted Trump to provide world leadership.
  • China is exerting growing political, diplomatic, and financial power across Europe.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
@xiabonan re "reputable sources such as the BBC"

Oh Please. Jesus Christ. WAKE UP!
BBC is great grandmaster of conspiracy theories for anything related to China.

Exactly, but to be fair, perhaps our friend here are not aware that the BBC is a government funded news media outlet. This maybe, because, for obvious reasons they don't make it known every time newsreaders read the news like they would if the media outlet was from China, the western media outlet will always say this standard line......... it's reported via the government mouthpiece........ global times etc.

Because they don't add that extra line in every time BBC make a report. People like our friend here are not aware that they are watching a ......... government mouthpiece! Can we see how subtle it can be to give a different impression to the unsuspected viewers?!

@solarz

When Wuhan can test every single one of its 11 million citizens in 10 days over 6 new confirmed cases, frankly there is no chance for any new outbreak to occur.

It is utterly egregious that in the so-called free press, I cannot find a single mention of this accomplishment. Had I not been frequenting this forum and not following certain youtube channels, I would never have known about this either!

Exactly, the Wuhan containment is a massive success story. Building hospitals flying in medics. Disinfect the whole city. All this and right in the middle of lunar New Year (which equivalent to Xmas in the West where family get together, and everyone goes out to celebrate and greet relatives and friends).

So instead reporting the sucess, all we get is negatives like human rights violations. Draconian China etc.
 
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Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
@Equation. This is exactly why I am pushing back because the fact is just as much as you push the Wuhan theory is distraction SO is the Detrick theory. The fact is China hasn’t solved this either. Despite claims to the contrary.
Trump is a distraction.
That’s politics.
That Video is a Counter Distraction.
I am done with this thread again. Please resume regularly scheduled events.

Terran. Your input in this is good. I disagree with your point of view. But it doesn't mean your point of view is not valid.

We are just trying to get to the truth. So if something that's clearly incorrect, we will point it out. Otherwise it is just opinons.

So I'm not sure why you sounded the way you do? No one is saying your opinion is wrong. We are just pointed out some of the facts used are, in effect, have been proved wrong.

Like for example: Trump used the Lancet as facts to write to WHO to complaint about China. What he thinks is his opinion which we can't prove right or wrong.

But what we can call him out on is that the fact Lancet themselves wrote an open letter stating Trump is in fact wrong to quote them in his letter to the WHO.

As such, this reduces the weights of his opinion, which lead to readers to form a different opinion of his claim to WHO about China.

That's all. Nothing more and nothing less.
 

coolieno99

Junior Member
... oh but the 2001 Anthrax....
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Farther more they keep calling Anthrax a virus. It’s a bacterium, Mold. ...
I presume you are referring to Bruce Edwards Ivins, the researcher at Fort Detrick who was charged by the FBI for the alleged 2001 anthrax attacks. After he learned he was to be arraign and brought to trial, he committed suicide. If he was really innocent of the charge, why would he killed himself?

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supercat

Major
No, it's not off topic, because Trump is leveling these baseless accusations about China covering up the coronavirus outbreak. It is very much on topic.
Unfortunately, Trump is not the only one accusing China of "cover-up". Almost every Western MSM outlet accuses China of the same thing without a shred of evidence.

Situation in the U.S. on May 20:
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Situation in China on May 20, excluding HK, Macau, and TW:
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coolieno99

Junior Member
... Oh But Mayor Michael Melham says he had it in November... Excuse me although he has tested positive for the Antibodies that don’t mean jack ships! Many of those tested have reported no symptoms... but he said he got sick! ....
The Covid-19 IGG antibody test is a laboratory test. This is not a clinical diagnosis where a doctor determine what kind of disease the patient had by making detail physical observation, and assessing it based on his own opinion. The IGG antibody test is based on the existence of IGG antibody. If the antibody tested is present/positive, it means the patient had been infected by Covid-19 sometimes in the distant past. And Mayor Melham was tested positive for IGG antibody,
 
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