Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

solarz

Brigadier
I keep saying, international Chinese media are not competent enough, we live in a propaganda war, the little Qatar with Al Jazeera managed to influence the whole world, Russia with RT managed to influence the whole world, RT is the most followed media channel on youtube, and its propaganda is effective

China ? totally incompetent media, how do you want to target a western audience with panda pictures and classical music? wake up ! we live in a propaganda war

And if I keep saying this, it is because I love China and I want it to adopt more effective propaganda, and if I take the example of Qatar or Russia, it's because it shows that countries even hated in the west can create effective propaganda in the west.

China has remained in Soviet style propaganda (like North Korea), that can't work in the West, the Russians have remarkably succeeded in adopting a very effective propaganda style, that is why all Western governments are afraid of RT

When you repeat a lie long enough, you start to believe it yourself. Look at the US, it's failure in containing the COVID-19 outbreak is a direct result of its earlier propaganda, where it sought to belittle Chinese efforts at containing the virus and pinning the blame on China's political system, with the underlying implication that the US, with its "free democracy", would be immune to such outbreaks. We all know what happened next.

The CCP once had extremely effective propaganda. Even today, Red Songs from 60 years ago are still popular. Yet the price of that propaganda was the Three Year Famine and the Cultural Revolution. Is that the price you want to pay?
 

Intrepid

Major
In Germany, people are now thinking about an automatic system: if new infections in a district go up, the measures become more stringent. If the new infections in a district go down, the measures are withdrawn.

This rewards districts with good organization in tracking. A performance based system. The health measures are the responsibility of the districts.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier





I keep saying, international Chinese media are not competent enough, we live in a propaganda war, the little Qatar with Al Jazeera managed to influence the whole world, Russia with RT managed to influence the whole world, RT is the most followed media channel on youtube, and its propaganda is effective

China ? totally incompetent media, how do you want to target a western audience with panda pictures and classical music? wake up ! we live in a propaganda war

And if I keep saying this, it is because I love China and I want it to adopt more effective propaganda, and if I take the example of Qatar or Russia, it's because it shows that countries even hated in the west can create effective propaganda in the west.

China has remained in Soviet style propaganda (like North Korea), that can't work in the West, the Russians have remarkably succeeded in adopting a very effective propaganda style, that is why all Western governments are afraid of RT
It's easy to say that something needs to be better; I hope that China does everything better, everyday! LOL But I think the most important question is still the one I asked before: What do you propose to do to make this propaganda more effective? How do you envision your improvements defeating the current obstacles set up against CCP propaganda to better people's views of China?

I don't see a way. Nobody hates Qatar in the US, especially if all the news outlet does is project pro-Western news. Russia is not the challenge that China is; Russia is a country that seeks to maintain credible nuclear deterrence against the US but its civilian technology and economy are insects compared to America's. Also, it is a Caucasian Christian country; when people see other people who they identify as visually similar to themselves, they are less likely to harbor bitter hatred. Nowadays the US government spends more energy trying to make every move that China makes look like an act of the devil than it does trying to save its own citizens from death; it barely mentions Russia anymore while every press conference, no matter what topic it started on, will go to why China's evil. Demonizing the Chinese mega-rival is literally the admitted strategy to prey on people's fears for election results! Russia's not even in the picture! China is the only country in the world that threatens to overtake the US in literally every field and measure, and it is a massive country comprised of people of a different race that rejects Christianity and embraces a political and economic system that is in direct rivalry with the values vaunted in America. It doesn't get more frightening than that and that is why every country in the world (even North Korea) can have more effective propaganda in the US than China can.
 
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shanlung

Junior Member
Registered Member
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LONDON (Reuters) - A study by French scientists which suggests a man was infected with COVID-19 as early as Dec. 27, nearly a month before France confirmed its first cases, could be important in assessing when and where the new coronavirus emerged, experts said on Tuesday.

French researchers led by Yves Cohen, head of resuscitation at the Avicenne and Jean Verdier hospitals, retested samples from 24 patients treated in December and January who had tested negative for flu before COVID-19 developed into a pandemic.

The results, published in the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, showed that one patient - a 42-year-old man born in Algeria, who had lived in France for many years and worked as a fishmonger - was infected with COVID-19 “one month before the first reported cases in our country”, they said.

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solarz

Brigadier
Folks,
I cannot wrap my head around this.

Is it that crazy?
Or am I crazy?


While it's nice fodder for conspiracy theorists, there are plenty of mundane explanations. A bill can undergo many revisions upon first introduction. It's entirely possible that Trump took an existing bill and modified it to introduce the relief package instead of creating an entirely new bill.
 

shanlung

Junior Member
Registered Member
While it's nice fodder for conspiracy theorists, there are plenty of mundane explanations. A bill can undergo many revisions upon first introduction. It's entirely possible that Trump took an existing bill and modified it to introduce the relief package instead of creating an entirely new bill.
I highly recommend not to watch those conspiracy utube videos, all thos “CRASH COLLAPSE” ones

I knew I was not conversant enough with USA and the way bills are introduced into that system.
The conclusion in that video was too bizarre for me to wrap my head around.
I more readily accept the news from France (and perhaps in time from elsewhere too) that their folks got covided even before the officially accepted time frame. Such as those in USA getting sick and died of C19 before C19 struck in Wuhan.
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
It's easy to say that something needs to be better; I hope that China does everything better, everyday! LOL But I think the most important question is still the one I asked before: What do you propose to do to make this propaganda more effective? How do you envision your improvements defeating the current obstacles set up against CCP propaganda to better people's views of China?

I don't see a way. Nobody hates Qatar in the US, especially if all the news outlet does is project pro-Western news. Russia is not the challenge that China is; Russia is a country that seeks to maintain credible nuclear deterrence against the US but its civilian technology and economy are insects compared to America's. Also, it is a Caucasian Christian country; when people see other people who they identify as visually similar to themselves, they are less likely to harbor bitter hatred. Nowadays the US government spends more energy trying to make every move that China makes look like an act of the devil than it does trying to save its own citizens from death; it barely mentions Russia anymore while every press conference, no matter what topic it started on, will go to why China's evil. Demonizing the Chinese mega-rival is literally the admitted strategy to prey on people's fears for election results! Russia's not even in the picture! China is the only country in the world that threatens to overtake the US in literally every field and measure, and it is a massive country comprised of people of a different race that rejects Christianity and embraces a political and economic system that is in direct rivalry with the values vaunted in America. It doesn't get more frightening than that and that is why every country in the world (even North Korea) can have more effective propaganda in the US than China can.

We are seeing two sides of the same coin, both Manqiangrexue and Wangxi are right. While amongst this forum and china generally, we know U.S. government posture is largely expected given China represents the only fully credible challenge in both economic and political spheres to America in recent history. One school of thought says as long as China continues to do whats "right" (which I genuinely believe is mostly "stay the course"), it can out-develop, out-build, out-think the US so we no longer need conflict, but that the competition between the US and China is no longer relevant, to the same extent as the current relationship between US and UK.

I don't believe this outcome will not be actually possible or take much longer without the Chinese government (and by extension, the Chinese people) engaging in "broad-based competitive media" (seriously we should stop using the word "Propaganda" when describing china's media presence in the west). The reason for this is that global discourse is still primarily Anglo-centric, and even if we are to simply ignore direct US "competitive media", other countries around the world and their citizens (namely non-aligned nations like Germany and South Korea) are still disproportionately influenced by Anglo-based vs Chinese-based media. China is also not at the stage where it can completely rely on domestic capabilities in the sciences/economics to further its development, therefore to out-develop, out-build, and out-think we still rely on the ability to influence non-Anglo nations through english media.

Put another way, lets evaluate the effectiveness and contribution to China's development of two unrelated but essentially parallel projects "CV Shandong" vs the Xinhua's "lego video of China vs US with COVID". From a different perspective, both do exactly the same thing, they are government projects to increase comprehensive national power vs the US. For the sake of the argument, lets say CV Shandong had an ultimate price of $5BN including airwing, and the meme video cost $100K(all in USD). Do we believe the ROI for CV Shandong is 50,000 times the value of the "lego meme"? Before objecting to this somewhat absurd comparison... yes I understand the difference between CVs and youtube (...for the record I believe 7-8 CV's is the minimum level China requires to maintain base-line national security by the mid-century). I would say every production of of pop-culture/soft asset by China influences in slight ways the french, germans, koreans, italians... to become increasingly reluctant to follow a "washington consensus", and that over many sustained years, can influence their reluctance/openness when it comes to technical/scientific collaboration with China. Developing the point further, an effective strategy on facebook/twitter/youtube WILL someday help china build directly or indirectly CVN-008 (or whatever it may be..), since China will reach the point where we can use a French logistics subsystem or an Italian AI within the naval aircraft, just like the Americans do now, so that we don't need to build every subsystem from scratch.

I have no doubt in the Chinese governments ability to hit technological/economic milestones. If China states in its next 5-year plan it will develop competitive EUV that will allow China to go sub-4 nm for ICs chip by 2025, I know damn well there is the money, the people, and science to do it. You would be a fool to believe otherwise. But I have also been following this forum for over 14 years, I know many old-timers of chinese background on this forum have amazing jobs and incredible disclipline/tenacity that if I were to ask many of you to save enough money to become a millionaire in 5 years, most of you could do it (... provided I could convince you the worthiness of such a goal). But if I were to ask you to become a comedian and be able to make 200 white people laugh at a bar in downtown Houston and gave you 5 years of practice to do it; this would be a nigh impossibility for many of us.

And this is the same problem China will face in the next 10 years. Building an domestic space station independent of the ISS, having a 5G network, independent widebody C929 aircraft... these are the easy stuff. What China needs in the next 5-year plan is to build that "broad-based competitive media". And this will be hard not because it costs inordinate amounts of money, but because it requires a totally different mindset and approach than what the government is used to delivering for the people since the early 80's. I will be the first person to say I only have the foggiest of ideas how to do this. But unlike when I asked forum members to either go become a millionaire or become funny and popular, in the realities of national development, China won't be able to become truly prosperous without being able to engage the western world convincingly, whether through pop-culture/humor/ability to influence global opinion.

And for the forum, lets replace "propaganda" with "broad-based competitive media". RT never calls its discourse propaganda, if anything it provides an "alternative view". We all know context matters in the west, and we can do our part to help influence this discourse, even here at SDF.
 
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