Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[AndrewS]

All for eradicating animal cruelty and wild animal markets with very little health authority oversight and management. But this wouldn't be saving money for China as a whole. It would save these individual consumers some money and they are such a small microscopic size of the Chinese population, but it would cost the business operators income.

That's not how it works.

It's consumer demand that is important, not the existing business operators.
If consumers choose to spend their money elsewhere, the business operators follow or new ones appear.

For example, instead of exotic animals, more money gets spent on luxury alcohol.

---

Enforcing bans on exotic animals and also live animals, would likely result in a NET gain for Chinese society.
Logic as follows:

1. Importing exotic food animals from abroad.
This is expensive when compared to sourcing common meats from within China.

2. Banning the sale of live animals in cities, which means animals have to be sent to dedicated slaughterhouses.
This prevents viruses from mixing.
It should be cheaper and more efficient to do it this way.
And the meat can still be provided freshly every day.

 

[ougoah]

That's not how it works.

It's consumer demand that is important, not the existing business operators.
If consumers choose to spend their money elsewhere, the business operators follow or new ones appear.

For example, instead of exotic animals, more money gets spent on luxury alcohol.

---

Enforcing bans on exotic animals and also live animals, would likely result in a NET gain for Chinese society.
Logic as follows:

1. Importing exotic food animals from abroad.
This is expensive when compared to sourcing common meats from within China.

2. Banning the sale of live animals in cities, which means animals have to be sent to dedicated slaughterhouses.
This prevents viruses from mixing.
It should be cheaper and more efficient to do it this way.
And the meat can still be provided freshly every day.

You see I was assuming there were no imports of exotic food animals. Of course that's not true in reality but the vast majority of animals in those markets would really be sourced within China. Anyway my point was made under the impression it is a zero sum game. The expenses and income would shift to another area. It can be good or bad for China but it would be so minuscule either way.

 

[AndrewS]

You see I was assuming there were no imports of exotic food animals. Of course that's not true in reality but the vast majority of animals in those markets would really be sourced within China. Anyway my point was made under the impression it is a zero sum game. The expenses and income would shift to another area. It can be good or bad for China but it would be so minuscule either way.

Your words were "but this wouldn't be saving money for China as a whole"

My point is that it DOES save money for China as a whole.

Transporting live animals does cost more than transporting meat.
And China does have an efficient distribution network in every city.

But you're right that there isn't much difference in cost.

 

[ougoah]

Your words were "but this wouldn't be saving money for China as a whole"

My point is that it DOES save money for China as a whole.

Transporting live animals does cost more than transporting meat.
And China does have an efficient distribution network in every city.

But you're right that there isn't much difference in cost.

That adds to my counterpoint which would be more money made by the transporter. Assuming the sourcing of the animals in within China along with the transport. But if you really want to nitpick, maybe the petroleum product will be imported. It's negligible when the perceived value is there i.e. the eating of exotic animals is somehow a worthy experience that nets a gain by offering something exceptional for a worthy cost.

This is way off topic now but the understanding of how these internal trades work along with the broken window fallacy shows Man's original comment about saving China some money isn't totally true. Since we're all about being generally balanced and rational on this forum. The future bans should be in consideration for the welfare of wild animals (not bred for food! therefore moral questions arise) and for human health considerations... SARS and this new coronavirus. That's reason enough. Plus the rest of Man's comments were more reflective of deeply ingrained Chinese cultural practises and traditions. All of which are honestly questionable like the host of superstitions and mysticism that still pervade modern Chinese society. I also agree with his position there even though opinions will vary a lot here. I am not a "foodie" even if I respect and enjoy high quality and exotic foods (exotic as in high end not boiled or baked bats).

 

[AndrewS]

That adds to my counterpoint which would be more money made by the transporter. Assuming the sourcing of the animals in within China along with the transport. But if you really want to nitpick, maybe the petroleum product will be imported. It's negligible when the perceived value is there i.e. the eating of exotic animals is somehow a worthy experience that nets a gain by offering something exceptional for a worthy cost.

Bulk transport of live animals to a single clean hygienic slaughterhouse will be a lot cheaper, than small deliveries to small markets.

Yes, you will have higher local distribution costs. But local delivery is less than $1 with same hour delivery in most cities.

That is negligible when compared to a 10kg box and the supposed value of these *luxury* exotic meats.

And you should also get a labour cost saving with centralised slaughterhouses versus a wet market. There is also less wastage as well.

Hence my point that it is a net positive for China if all live animal sales in markets are banned.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Why do The western nation hate us so much? you would have thought this is not the right time to make political capital out of this, health, situation!? Alas no, a publication in Denmark have managed to link politics with the current situation, and have no issues in printing it to their readers. I wonder how they would have felt if it was the other way round!

Sorry, guys I'm unable to translate text. Suffice to say it happened in Denmark, and China had make offical complaints.


刊「五星病毒旗」漫畫 丹麥報章借肺炎辱華

濫用言論自由！丹麥主流報章《日德蘭郵報》近日刊出題為「今天的畫：冠狀病毒」的漫畫，圖中五星旗上的五星竟然被換成五顆病毒，被質疑有辱華之嫌。

中國駐丹麥大使館發表聲明稱，中國政府與人民正在全力應對疫情，而國際社會亦表達極大同情、關心與支持。但《日德蘭郵報》卻刊載出辱華的漫畫，毫無基本同情與同理心，嚴重傷害了中國人民的感情，因此表達強烈憤慨，並要求報方與作者要公開向中國人民道歉。

#新型冠狀病毒 #丹麥 #辱華 #圍爐

 

[KYli]

doctors are overworked & simply cannot handle the numbers, more doctors means more rest for them.

That is resource allocation issue. Not because there are not enough doctors in China. Thousands of doctors and medical assistants have mobilized all over China. It just takes time to get them there and equip them with the right gear. And many hospitals need to retrofit before handling special patients. That's why special hospitals have been built. That video just showed the initial chaos when hospitals are overwhelmed with people who are scared.

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China sends in military doctors to help Wuhan hospitals fight coronavirus outbreak

• Central military command orders PLA medical personnel based in the city to help civilian doctors and nurses
• 40 doctors already working in the intensive care unit of Wuhan Pulmonary Hospital and more to follow

 

[Gatekeeper]

This can't be right in any situation!

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[nugroho]

I don't know how China handling with this outbreak data, but to mitigate panic, authority should announce
1 How many people are estimated to get infected.
2 From no 1, how many percentage develop symptoms ( from mild to severe )
3 From no 2 , how many percentage develop pneumonia
4 From no 3, how many percentage develop to Adult respiratory distress syndrome or most severe complication.

I think no 1 is very big number, but from no 2 it will decrease exponentially, so people will think " Ok, I get infected, but I am not 100% destined to be dead because of pneumonia, there will be still a lot of percentage I will survive."

 

[adiru]

Why do The western nation hate us so much? you would have thought this is not the right time to make political capital out of this, health, situation!? Alas no, a publication in Denmark have managed to link politics with the current situation, and have no issues in printing it to their readers. I wonder how they would have felt if it was the other way round!

Sorry, guys I'm unable to translate text. Suffice to say it happened in Denmark, and China had make offical complaints.


刊「五星病毒旗」漫畫 丹麥報章借肺炎辱華

濫用言論自由！丹麥主流報章《日德蘭郵報》近日刊出題為「今天的畫：冠狀病毒」的漫畫，圖中五星旗上的五星竟然被換成五顆病毒，被質疑有辱華之嫌。

中國駐丹麥大使館發表聲明稱，中國政府與人民正在全力應對疫情，而國際社會亦表達極大同情、關心與支持。但《日德蘭郵報》卻刊載出辱華的漫畫，毫無基本同情與同理心，嚴重傷害了中國人民的感情，因此表達強烈憤慨，並要求報方與作者要公開向中國人民道歉。

#新型冠狀病毒 #丹麥 #辱華 #圍爐

View attachment 57075

To understand the why you have to look at the big picture behind the scenes

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