Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
The main problem is the power of the American influence in media and politics. The Chinese are just too new in this arena to put up a serious fight. It is only the critical thinkers or pro-China fans who are against the China-hate campaign.

On the brighter side. The world will eventually have to open up to China. Not because they love China, but because they need Chinese money. China should learn the lessons of the past and leverage this fact. Demand that these countries stop their Sinophobia, or no deal. You cannot sign any deal with China, but at the same time promote Sinophobia. Those old times have to stop.

It's not really Chinese money.
It's the Chinese market.

If you're not in China, your Chinese or foreign competitors will be in China.

And they'll be the ones to reap the sales, profits, R&D personnel, low-cost production, hi-speed development to build hi-tech products for the global market.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
It's not really Chinese money.
It's the Chinese market.

If you're not in China, your Chinese or foreign competitors will be in China.

And they'll be the ones to reap the sales, profits, R&D personnel, low-cost production, hi-speed development to build hi-tech products for the global market.
True. Chinese market is the correct definition. What I wanted to add is that the Chinese market also includes overseas activities such as FDIs, real estate, and tourism.

So for example, if France wishes to woo Chinese tourists to come back. To revive its tourism and luxury goods industry. They cannot be blocking Chinese vaccine immunized Chinese citizens from coming in. Plus they still should not want to come if there is a yellow-peril craze in France. Another example, if a 3rd-world basket case like Malaysia wants Chinese FDI, because there are no alternatives. Then, they must stop playing games with Sinophobia. They cannot be signing deals, and then loudly (and proudly) cancelling or lapsing them on a whim when they feel a little Sinophobic. Like that Sinovac deal.

I understand that China needs businesses and friends. But there should be enough experience now to see which countries can be redeemed, and which are snakes. Just don't allow the snakes to continue cheating on China without consequences.
 
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solarz

Brigadier
I would like to agree with you. But history has been very kind to the US lying. The Iraq war one of the few exceptions because it was debunked relatively quickly. But there are other lies that took decades to debunk, or were never officially debunked. Such as:
1) Tiananmen square 'massacre'. The PLA tanks "crushed democracy protesters". Took more than 30 years to debunk. Till today, people still associate Chinese tanks with oppression.
2) Gulf of Tonkin incident. Only today are people questioning whether its a lie. Officially, its never debunked.
3) 2011 Libyan war. Gaddafi giving orders to soldiers to conduct genocide. Never officially debunked.
4) Osama bin Laden was America enemy #1. But never an American asset? Never officially debunked.
5) Moscow apartment bombing is an 'inside job'. Never questioned in the mainstream. Only the pro-Russian circles are questioning it.

Interesting how you left out the biggest lie, Iraq War. That's the one lie that caused the decline of the US from its peak of uncontested supremacy after the fall of Soviet Union.

History happens on a timescale of generations. You need to zoom out to appreciate it.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Interesting how you left out the biggest lie, Iraq War. That's the one lie that caused the decline of the US from its peak of uncontested supremacy after the fall of Soviet Union.

History happens on a timescale of generations. You need to zoom out to appreciate it.
He included it, but he mentioned it as one of the few lies that was factually debunked:

"I would like to agree with you. But history has been very kind to the US lying. The Iraq war one of the few exceptions because it was debunked relatively quickly. But there are other lies that took decades to debunk, or were never officially debunked".
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Does this mean that traditional inactivated virus vaccines like AstraZeneca, CanoSino and Sputnik are more effective long term against COVID?
I can't read the article due to the subscription paywall (and incognito mode didn't work for me), so I can't answer the main question. However, I just want to make a small correction in regards to the vaccines that you mentioned. Those vaccines are the adenovirus versions, not the traditional inactivated ones. The adenovirus ones use a harmless and modified virus to carry the DNA of the targeted virus (in this case, Covid 19). Off the top of my head, the companies that produce traditional inactivated vaccines are Sinovac and Sinopharm.
 

DarkStar

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's not enough for people to simply reject the lie, they must be incentivised to reject it; look at how so many westerners accept the WMD lie and condemn the anglo led US for destroying the middle east and yet they do nothing about it because they are spineless and lack the courage of their own convictions.
Look at how the anglos under trump and pompeo and biden tore up the Iran nuclear deal and the europeans just meekly and cowardly went along with it because they were incentivised by the anglos to follow their diktat. No european and german bank was going to defy the anglos in that respect, regardless of the legality of the US now withdrawing from the nuke deal.
And now China will provide the necessary incentives to compel white countries to respect Chinese laws and interests with the sword of sanctions hanging over the heads of many a white western nation's politicians.

On the matter of the COVID; white nations are incentivised to believe anglo US propaganda because it's the path of least resistance and dare i say it, some of the coward nations who jump on the bandwagon are those who are simply happy not to have the anglo mafia's attention on them.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Interesting how you left out the biggest lie, Iraq War. That's the one lie that caused the decline of the US from its peak of uncontested supremacy after the fall of Soviet Union.

History happens on a timescale of generations. You need to zoom out to appreciate it.
Please do not misquote me.

I did mention about the Iraq War. It was in my first sentence. I said that the Iraq War is one of the few exceptions. Because that lie was quickly debunked when coalition troops are done defeating Saddam Hussein. The other lies that I have listed out took decades to debunk, or were never debunked.

I am looking at history for generations. The post Iraq War era is not the only time where the US fell from grace. The Vietnam War and its aftermath was also just as significant as the Iraq War in 2003. Back then, honest journalists for the first time unraveled the lie that America was fighting the good fight. Anti-war culture and progressive movements back then was even more significant than even in post-Iraq. But what happened next? Starting from 1991 America decided to go after 'brutal' dictators and then America is back again. Again becoming the most liked and trusted policeman of the world. All was well until 2003 of course.

Remember the Syrian War and the anti-Russian hysteria during the Obama period? It was also the Occupy Wall Street spirit was also happening at that time. There were a lot of criticisms of the US for getting too involved in the Middle East, and dangerously provoking Russia. So spawned the many alternative media fighting against the MSM. It looked like the US had really lost the plot.

But wait. Who says America is gone? Donald Trump came next. US declared China enemy #1. Suddenly almost everyone agrees with America again. Those alternative media that I was talking about? At least half of them started bashing China over America. Governments and media around the world join in on the China-hate. America was able to rally Sinophobia around the free world. It was so much easier than Islamophobia or Russophobia. There is so much less resistance for Sinophobia. Everyone can hate China now. Its so easy. Whether you are White, Black, Asian, Christian, Muslim, or Hindu. Hating China is trendy, and is actually favored. I have seen and met people who oppose the Iraq War, oppose Israeli occupation of Palestine, oppose the demonization of Russia; but is fine about Sinophobia. Many of these people are Asians by the way. Then Covid-19 pandemic came and everything else is history.

So, I can see the history. America's influence has waxed and waned. But recently, it has recovered in some areas. America always recovers influence when it has found a new enemy to hate. The five eyes, Japan, South Korea, India, parts of SEA, and parts of Europe have chosen America over China. Australia is the best example. Gone were the days where Australians can vote for a PM like Kevin Ruud to build better ties with China. This is not a short-term problem, trust me. This is going to go on for decades.

Chinese, Russian, and the alternative media sometimes portray China's perception in the world abit too positively. In the real world, it is far more nuanced. Sinophobia is much more mainstream than most of us would like to think. Everyone knows that America is a serial liar. But then so many of them too, proudly joined the 'Wuhan Virus' bandwagon. Its not because they truly trust America, its because they trust America more than China. It is quite foolish to underestimate the power of American media and influence. Most people in the free world are not as rational as China likes to think. The media still plays a very important role, and China still has some ways to go to match the Western media in both sophistication and persuasiveness. Chinese media still likes to lecture to its viewers. While Western media knows how to lead the viewers into their message. The Chinese method just cannot work these days, because people are more sophisticated. Few people like to be lectured. For sure, China is catching up, but it can do better. Chinese people do not lack news media talent. It frustrates me to see SCMP, a HK-based news media doing a far better job at newscasting than any of the English-language Chinese media.
 
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