Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)


vesicles

Colonel
Adding to the mess is the media. Intentionally or unintentionally, the media misinterprets scientific findings and misleads people. A headline yells "SARS-CoV-2 can survive on a hard surface for 2 years!". And you go "wait a minute, didn't they just say the virus can only survive on a hard surface for 30 seconds???" What's going on? Different kinds of surfaces, different temperatures and different lighting conditions all make a difference. Copper is toxic to most cells. If you put viruses on a copper surface, they will die in seconds. Change that to steel, they can live for up to a few days. If you lower the temperature, you will keep them alive even longer. Take away sunlight, they are even happier. Does any of these caveats show up in headlines? Hardly.

Then you will see some scientists casting doubt on the validity of the virus survival data. They will tell you that survival doesn't mean these viruses can still make you sick. You go "WHAT!? You just said the virus is alive. Now you say they may not be able to infect people. Didn't you just tell me this critter does human-to-human transmission?!" Someone must've lied!!! Well, being alive doesn't mean they will infect you. The ability of a virus to infect depends on the health level of the virus and/or the number of virus. If you have some unhealthy viruses, they cannot function normally and their ability to infect will be compromised. The ability of any cells, mammalian, plant, bacterial or viral, will depend on numbers. If you put a single cell in a dish, this single cell will never grow and proliferate into two, four or 16. That single cell will stay there for days, weeks, or months, then eventually die off. On the other hand, when you put 1 million cells in a dish, they will double their numbers in every 4-6 hours. And in a day, they will expand like crazy. So if you leave a virus on a surface for a few days, you still detect some live virus. But if the number is too few, they can never proliferate. These viruses will stay in your body as they are and slowly die off. Then you are not infected... Will you get this info from a headline? Will any journalist clearly explain this to you in their article. I doubt any of them would understand this. Even if they do, it would be less stunning. They might simply ignore to mention it to make their piece sound more dramatic. You end up getting conflicting ideas about this virus.

Then come the scientists... They go nuts because their findings are misinterpreted. And more of them come out and try to clear things up. But most of them don't know how to talk to the lay public and begin to throw some big jargon words out. Most people fall asleep in the middle of the speech. And only thing picked up by the public would be "death! brain damage!". Then the public becomes even more confused. My God! These people are out of their minds! They go back and forth and things keep changing! And we have this huge mess...
 

KYli

Senior Member
If Pfizer vaccines can only reduce the risk of being admitted to hospitals by 85%, then there is a big discrepancy between UK and Israel results. On the other hand, AstraZeneca has outperformed its clinical results. Hopefully, other European countries can come out with their findings and put a rest on this issue. So 85% vs 98.9% discrepancy.

Quote"Israel's Health Ministry on Saturday said that the
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was 98.9% effective at preventing hospitalizations and death caused by COVID-19."
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"Scientists from the University of Edinburgh, the University of Strathclyde and Public health Scotland examined data from people who had received the first dose of the either the Pfizer/BioNTech or AstraZeneca vaccine.

The data showed that four weeks after having the shot, the risk of being admitted to hospitals had been reduced by up to 85% and 94% respectively, according to UK news agency PA Media. As of Monday morning, the UK has given first doses to 17.5 million people, while the speed at which it can vaccinate is increasing.

Also on Monday, Public Health England
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, which showed that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine "provides high levels of protection against infection and symptomatic disease."

The research, which was carried out on healthcare workers aged under the age of 65, found that one dose of the vaccine reduced the risk of infection by 72% after three weeks, while two vaccine doses reduced the risk of infection by 85%."

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Boris Johnson lays out go-slow plan to take England out of lockdown by summer

London (CNN)UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has set out a four-step roadmap to take England
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, declaring Monday that the nation was on a "one-way road to freedom."

The country has been in full national lockdown
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, after a new, more transmissible variant of coronavirus was discovered in
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All being well, Johnson's government is hopeful that most of the economy will be able to open before the end of June. As he announced the plan on Monday, the Prime Minister stressed that the four steps would be decided by "data not dates," and emphasized that they would be subject to change. Downing Street officials were keen to explain that this caution was in order to avoid future restrictions that would further damage the economy.

"There is ... no credible route to a Zero Covid Britain or indeed a Zero Covid World and we cannot persist indefinitely with restrictions that debilitate our economy, our physical and mental well-being, and the life chances of our children," Johnson said. "This roadmap should be cautious but also irreversible."

Johnson told lawmakers that step one would begin on March 8, as schools finally reopen across England, as well as the return of limited outdoor social interaction, such as sitting on a park bench with one other person.
The UK will also introduce testing for school pupils.

"We're introducing twice weekly testing of secondary school and college pupils and asking them to wear face coverings for the rest of this term," Johnson said at a press conference on Monday.

Step one will also have a second phase on March 29, where further restrictions will be lifted, allowing groups of six to meet outside and two households to mix.

The lifting of measures will take place with a minimum five-week gap, the Prime Minister said, allowing four weeks for the government to gather the appropriate data and one week to alert the public and sectors involved.

The speed at which England will exit lockdown will be set against four key tests: how the vaccine rollout is going; how vaccines are affecting hospitalizations and deaths; that infection rates are staying low; and that new variants not undermining the other three criteria.
Step two, which would happen no earlier than April 12, will see the return of non-essential retail, such as hairdressers, gyms, museums, zoos and theme parks. Social contact rules will remain in place for indoor activities, meaning that they can only be attended by the members of own household.

Crucially, the hospitality sector will also be allowed to reopen at this point. Pubs and restaurants will only be allowed to serve groups of six or two households outside, however. Downing Street said that there would be no curfews or restrictions on what
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after heavy criticism last summer.

Step three, which will be in place no sooner than May 17, will remove most social distancing rules. Groups of up to 30 will be able to meet outdoors in a public space or private garden. Pubs and restaurants will be allowed to serve indoors, though the rule of six will apply. Indoor entertainment will also be allowed to resume, with venues allowed to host up to 1,000 people. Spectators will be allowed to return to live outdoor sports, with up to 10,000 allowed to attend the largest venues, such as Wembley Stadium.

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Finally, step four, which will happen no sooner than June 12, will see the removal of most social restrictions and the return of nightclubs. Personal life events like weddings will have no limitations if things go well. In the weeks and months leading up to step four, the government will carry out reviews on large outdoor events, such as music festivals.

The government will look at controversial measures such as Covid certification for people who test negative or have been vaccinated. International travel will not return until at least May 17 and travel between the UK's four nations will be discussed between the devolved governments.

The measures, while welcomed by most, will be deemed slow and in some cases controversial, so Johnson is likely to meet resistance from his own Conservative lawmakers when they come before a vote in Parliament.

"Today's pace of change will be a hammer blow to aviation, pubs, restaurants, hotels, gyms and pools, the arts and entertainment," Conservative MP Steve Baker said in a statement Monday.

"Once again, it seems to be modeling not data driving decisions."

The news comes as the UK's vaccine rollout continues to lead the rest of Europe, while scientific research indicates that vaccinations lower the risk of hospitalization up to 94%.

Scientists from the University of Edinburgh, the University of Strathclyde and Public health Scotland examined data from people who had received the first dose of the either the Pfizer/BioNTech or AstraZeneca vaccine.

The data showed that four weeks after having the shot, the risk of being admitted to hospitals had been reduced by up to 85% and 94% respectively, according to UK news agency PA Media. As of Monday morning, the UK has given first doses to 17.5 million people, while the speed at which it can vaccinate is increasing.

Also on Monday, Public Health England
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, which showed that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine "provides high levels of protection against infection and symptomatic disease."

The research, which was carried out on healthcare workers aged under the age of 65, found that one dose of the vaccine reduced the risk of infection by 72% after three weeks, while two vaccine doses reduced the risk of infection by 85%.


Despite the vaccine rollout, Chief Medical Officer for England Chris Whitty said Monday that Covid-19 would likely be a problem over the next few winters.

"This is something that we have to see for the long term and, in my view, is likely to be a problem in particular during the winter for the next few winters," Whitty said.

He explained that, just as flu and pneumonia still cause serious illness and fatalities every year, so will Covid-19
"I am afraid, for the foreseeable future, the coronavirus is going to be added to that list of things that those who are vulnerable, even despite vaccination, can be at risk of," he said.

"We vaccinate against flu, we vaccinate against pneumococcal pneumonia and still there are cases and there are deaths."
Whitty added: "I think people need to see it in that way... this is something where the vaccination will take the rates right down but they will not get rid of this."
 
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vesicles

Colonel
If Pfizer vaccines can only reduce the risk of being admitted to hospitals by 85%, then there is a big discrepancy between UK and Israel results. On the other hand, AstraZeneca has outperformed its clinical results. Hopefully, other European countries can come out with their findings and put a rest on this issue.

A relative of mine vaccinated with Moderna became very tired and was still lying in bed after one week after the first dose. Not sure how common is this but it scares my parents a bit.
All my colleagues and I have gotten Moderna. All of us were fine after the first shot. Except sore arms, none of us experienced any other adverse reactions. It's the second dose that get many people in trouble. It's usually the younger people who experience more severe side effects, myself included. Most of us fully recover in a day or two. Older people tend to experience much lighter side effects after the second shot. The only thing I've heard about is sore arm. So your parents don't need to worry. Being stuck in bed for a week is extremely unusual and unheard of, even after the second shot for younger people. I would suggest your relative should consult with their doctor to find out why.
 

KYli

Senior Member
All my colleagues and I have gotten Moderna. All of us were fine after the first shot. Except sore arms, none of us experienced any other adverse reactions. It's the second dose that get many people in trouble. It's usually the younger people who experience more severe side effects, myself included. Most of us fully recover in a day or two. Older people tend to experience much lighter side effects after the second shot. The only thing I've heard about is sore arm. So your parents don't need to worry. Being stuck in bed for a week is extremely unusual and unheard of, even after the second shot for younger people. I would suggest your relative should consult with their doctor to find out why.
She is over 75. She plans to visit her doctor if not getting better in a few more days. My parents are waiting the results of second doses from a few friends and relatives before scheduling their appointments. It has been some delay due to weather and low stocks so many of them would take the second doses in the end of Feb or early March.
 

MarkD

New Member
Registered Member
US deaths topped 500,000 out of more than 28 million cases. Keep in mind the vast majority of these deaths are due to other factors such as old age, common cold, and others.
 

vesicles

Colonel
She is over 75. She plans to visit her doctor if not getting better in a few more days. My parents are waiting the results of second doses from a few friends and relatives before scheduling their appointments. It has been some delay due to weather and low stocks so many of them would take the second doses in the end of Feb or early March.
Yeah, she should see her doctor about it. It's even more unusual for seniors to experience such severe side effects. My colleagues and I have now reached full protection since it's been almost 3 weeks after our second shots. Many of my colleagues are in their 60's and 70's. All of them seem to be fine and none of them is complaining about side effects. My parents are 80 and had their first shots a few weeks ago. They all feel fine. They had sore arms for a day and then back to normal since then.
 

MarkD

New Member
Registered Member
Isn't this 500,000 number COVID-related? This is not total death in the US, but purely and directly related to COVID.

COVID related. It's sort of like, if a person died when that person had common cold, that person died related to common cold but the cause could very well be old age.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Junior Member
Registered Member
COVID related. It's sort of like, if a person died when that person had common cold, that person died related to common cold but the cause could very well be old age.
However, covid is a complete different case. In the case of a covid-related death, covid damages certain parts of the body (like sars does), and the damage will worsen the person's already-existing conditions such as high blood pressure. This chain of events can potentially lead to death. Such results are causing a lot of concern among scientists and doctors. In short, covid isn't a joke due to its unpredictable effects on one's body.
 

plawolf

Brigadier
COVID related. It's sort of like, if a person died when that person had common cold, that person died related to common cold but the cause could very well be old age.
If you were otherwise healthy and well, but got hit by a car and died a week later. Would you still be making the same silly argument that the death might be car related but might also be a cold?

You also need to realise hospitals are hardly doing Covid tests for lolz. They are not going to bother to do a Covid test if you came into the ER with a GSW or due to a traffic accident. They will only test you if they suspect you are infected, and they will only do that if the reason you are in hospital is to do with said Covid symptoms.

When looking at massive national and international aggregate totals, the numbers of people who had Covid but died of totally unrelated causes are going to be a rounding error.
 

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