Civilian Aviation Technology

Pointblank said:

I doubt Rolls Royce would like to be blacklisted by the US government to assist the Chinese on a military project. Too much is at stake for Rolls Royce if they did.

Click to expand...

it's not a military project, it's a commercial airliner with a capacity like a Boeing 737, but even food could be used for military purpose when eaten by soldiers.

as for if RR will turn down the offer, it faces the classical "prisoner's dilemma", if it doesn't confess, someone else may.

LesAdieux said:

it's not a military project, it's a commercial airliner with a capacity like a Boeing 737, but even food could be used for military purpose when eaten by soldiers.

as for if RR will turn down the offer, it faces the classical "prisoner's dilemma", if it doesn't confess, someone else may.

Click to expand...

That only leaves P&W And GE, in the big league, and being American companies they could be persueded to decline by their own government, thus making it easier fo RR to decline as well.

the bottom line is with or without a partner, china will go ahead anyway, the only difference is without a partner, it may delay the programme for a few years. by the way, I'm quite ignorant about engineering, could the core technology of ws-10a be used by reducing the the number of compressors, increasing the by-pass and streeping of the after burner.

China is determine to go ahead whether or not foreign companies decide to participate.

Chineses civil aviation require a large quantity of aircrafts, it is a large market. Airbus or Boeing have large stake in this market, so are the engine makers. Furthermore the embargo is aimed at military equipment.

I don't believe US and European companies want to missed this opportunity. They would likely lobby their government not to block any dealing in large commercial plane ventures.

Also, instead of letting Chinese develop the knowhow, why not control and keep the knowhow in the west by selling equipment or joint-venture.

Anyway, the Chinese will develop the know how in the end no matter what, because that is their intention and they have the determination, money and human resources.

Well when China first announced plans to get into the jumbo jet business, I remember reading Boeing immediately making a statement they wanted to help. Basically they said they're looking at the future when China will be buying their own planes instead of theirs so they might as well find their niche anyway they can. But if China wants to use their planes for military purposes, that's probably not going to happen unless US laws change.

They can develop 2 types of large planes, one is for military transport like the C-17 which they would expect not getting any help from the West.

The second type would be the commecrcial jetliner for the civil aviation market. Since GE has already supplied engines for the ARJ-21 with-out US government blocking, I would see no obstacle in collaboration with US and Europen engine and avionic companies. Chinese airliners are already using over thousand of Airbus and Boeings for their domestic and international flights.

It is very difficult to develop only one design for both military and civil use, (an exception being conversion of civil jetliner into fuel tanker.) Civil jets require competitive fuel efficiency, range, comfort, cabin pressurisation and high level of safety.

Military transport are designed for rough airfield landing, quick turn around in loading and unloading, higher thrust but thirsty engines etc.

IMHO, there will be 2 types of large aircraft on the drawing board.

according to the cctv news, chengdu aircraft company started manufacturing the head part for the C919, does this mean they've finished the design? I thought manufaturing would be located in shanghai.

in other news, the LM-3B failed to put the indonesian communication satellite into the right orbit, the third stage didn't function properly after the second ignition, but the satellite is not lost, they are trying to save it.

LesAdieux said:

according to the cctv news, chengdu aircraft company started manufacturing the head part for the C919, does this mean they've finished the design? I thought manufaturing would be located in shanghai.

in other news, the LM-3B failed to put the indonesian communication satellite into the right orbit, the third stage didn't function properly after the second ignition, but the satellite is not lost, they are trying to save it.

Click to expand...

some pictures of this news. As for CAC, it's obviously responsible for the head part of the plane. In modern airliners, you have many suppliers doing different parts of the plane and a final assembly line.

tphuang said:

some pictures of this news. ...

Click to expand...

But if I'm not completely wrong this is the front section of the ARJ-21 in the first picture !??

Deino

Palapa Satallite Rescued
Chris Forrester
01-09-2009

On August 31 the Chinese launched an Indonesian satellite, Palapa-D, aboard a Chang Zheng-3B ‘Long March’ rocket, from the Sichuan launch site in South-West China. But the third stake of the rocket failed to function correctly, and the satellite was left in a highly elliptical orbit. The initial news was all bad, but a clever rethink by engineers at Thales Alenia Space have saved a messy – and potentially expensive – situation.

Thales, which manufactured the satellite, managed to capture the craft and propel it towards its correct orbit, and en-route to its designated position at 113 degrees East.


The craft was ordered back in July 2007, and is larger than the satellite it is to replace. Palapa-D has 35 C-band transponders plus 5 in Ku-band.


The Chinese used their most powerful rocket in what was supposed to be a showcase of their launch skills. There was, says Reuters, a news blackout for some hours following the failure. The rocket’s 3rd stage failed about 20 minutes into the flight, leaving the satellite circling the Earth in a useless orbit of just 130 miles at its lowest point, and 13,150 miles at its highest.


While news out of China is a little sketchy at the moment, the normal pattern for such rescue missions is for the technicians to use some of the satellite’s own precious on-board fuel to ‘kick start’ it out of the elliptical orbit and using this fuel to propel the rocket to its designated position. However, the downside is that the satellite is then left with much less fuel than designed, and certainly not enough for a 15-year planned life.