Chinese UCAV/CCA/flying wing drones (ISR, A2A, A2G)

Jason_

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm still trying to find a plausible reason for why they'd forego a pure flying wing design. It doesn't make sense to sacrifice stealth for aerodynamics in a subsonic bomber.

I wonder if maybe Chinese engines currently do not provide sufficient thrust for a pure flying wing bomber of this size and weight. At least not in a 2-engine configuration. They can build a 4-engine B-2 size bomber. But not a 2-engine B-21 size bomber. So they gave this a cranked wing design to reduce aerodynamic drag, and allow the bomber to fly with only 2 engines.

The H-20 will probably be a larger 4-engine pure flying wing bomber like the B-2.
The US made several cranked kite designs including the X-47B so does the US also lack engines with sufficent thrust for a pure flying wing?
 

THX 1138

Junior Member
Registered Member
The US made several cranked kite designs including the X-47B so does the US also lack engines with sufficent thrust for a pure flying wing?

Isn't the X-47B much smaller? And uses only a single engine? And carrier based?

The issue isn't about whether China can build a pure flying kite aircraft. They obviously have built several already. The question is whether they can build one of the size and weight of a B-21 while powered by only 2 engines.
 

iewgnem

Senior Member
Registered Member
Isn't the X-47B much smaller? And uses only a single engine? And carrier based?

The issue isn't about whether China can build a pure flying kite aircraft. They obviously have built several already. The question is whether they can build one of the size and weight of a B-21 while powered by only 2 engines.
Now that you know cranked wing has higher drag than pure flying wing, shouldn't your question be: can the US build a GJ-X sized drone while powered by 2 engines?
 

THX 1138

Junior Member
Registered Member
So they gave this a cranked wing design to reduce aerodynamic drag, and allow the bomber to fly with only 2 engines.

Upon re-reading that, it is clearly nonsense. I shouldn't have worded it that way. Cranked wing has benefits, but reducing aerodynamic drag in the subsonic regime is not one of them.

But it doesn't change my feeling that the cranked wing is a design compromise, rather than a design feature. The B-21 shape seems optimal for maximizing the stealth and range of a subsonic bomber. Any deviation from it (even the B-2 shape) is sub-optimal. The B-21 probably uses variants of the F135 engine. China doesn't currently have a comparable engine. And that's why I suspect they may have had to compromise on the shape in order to produce a 2-engine bomber of comparable size and weight as a B-21.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable about aerodynamics can explain whether or not this is a reasonable conjecture.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Upon re-reading that, it is clearly nonsense. I shouldn't have worded it that way. Cranked wing has benefits, but reducing aerodynamic drag in the subsonic regime is not one of them.

But it doesn't change my feeling that the cranked wing is a design compromise, rather than a design feature. The B-21 shape seems optimal for maximizing the stealth and range of a subsonic bomber. Any deviation from it (even the B-2 shape) is sub-optimal. The B-21 probably uses variants of the F135 engine. China doesn't currently have a comparable engine. And that's why I suspect they may have had to compromise on the shape in order to produce a 2-engine bomber of comparable size and weight as a B-21.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable about aerodynamics can explain whether or not this is a reasonable conjecture.
The B-21 uses PW9000s. They’re not based on the F135 but the PW1000s.
 

d6dio

Just Hatched
Registered Member
重读一遍,这显然是胡说八道。我不应该这么说。曲柄机翼确实有好处,但减少亚音速下的气动阻力却不在其中。

但这并没有改变我的看法:曲柄机翼是一种设计上的妥协,而非设计特色。B-21 的外形似乎是最大化亚音速轰炸机隐身性能和航程的最佳方案。任何偏离该外形的设计(即使是 B-2 的外形)都不是最佳方案。B-21 可能使用的是 F135 发动机的变体。中国目前还没有类似的发动机。因此,我怀疑他们可能不得不在外形上做出妥协,以便生产出尺寸和重量与 B-21 相当的双发轰炸机。

也许对空气动力学更了解的人可以解释这是否是一个合理的猜想。
IMG_9550.jpeg
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
So I guess this thing is used for long range ISR? Kind of similar to global hawk?

Likely long range/endurance unmanned strike bomber (but naturally would likely have some ISR capability because it'll have some sensors after all

The other large, B-2 wingspan flying wing is likely more purpose built/optimized for long range/endurance ISR.
China-large-flying-wing.jpg


More similar to RQ-180 than global hawk
 

iewgnem

Senior Member
Registered Member
Upon re-reading that, it is clearly nonsense. I shouldn't have worded it that way. Cranked wing has benefits, but reducing aerodynamic drag in the subsonic regime is not one of them.

But it doesn't change my feeling that the cranked wing is a design compromise, rather than a design feature. The B-21 shape seems optimal for maximizing the stealth and range of a subsonic bomber. Any deviation from it (even the B-2 shape) is sub-optimal. The B-21 probably uses variants of the F135 engine. China doesn't currently have a comparable engine. And that's why I suspect they may have had to compromise on the shape in order to produce a 2-engine bomber of comparable size and weight as a B-21.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable about aerodynamics can explain whether or not this is a reasonable conjecture.
All designs are compromises, the biggest advantage of cranked wing is it gives more room to move internal equipment around to match CG to center of lift, i.e. "outer-wing decoupled from centerbody - allow planform optimization", this is especially important when you have internal payload size requirements.

To achieve the same IWB size with a pure flying wing you might need a much bigger aircraft than needed, so after you factor in everything, the increased size might hurt RCS, and the increased mass and limitations to planform might prevent optimization and hurt efficency.

This is why everyone think the large flying wing drone is ISR and the cranked wing is for strike, ISR does not have IWB requirements.

Also remember aircrafts are 3D objects and airfoils aren't rectangles, just because the leading and trailing edge are at certain places does not mean internal volume extend to the edge.
 
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