Chinese Soft Power and Media Discussion and Updates

Wrought said:

No, USDS Tiktok is literally just Bytedance engineers under a different label. The board is being restructured with a US majority, but it's not like they are firing everyone and restaffing from zero. So US investors get shares and profits and so on, but the actual people running the boring everyday details remain Chinese.

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So its like getting a share in profit away from CN company? And also moderating content? What did Tiktok get in return if there is something? Just continued operation?

South Koreans must get something out of it since people like you value it so much. If you’re Indonesian… are you suppose to give your place in line to any Korean since they have soft power? Americans say Indians have soft power over China because Americans practice yoga. So how does your “regional” logic work there?

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I’m trying to understand what the heck you’re trying to prove here.

Valentine said:

I agree with everything, especially the point about society, because China truly has huge problems with this, the so-called "problems of social morality" in China, due to rapid urbanization and a lag in the development of social behavior. I'm not a scientist, I'm just someone who works in the entertainment industry in China, and in my personal experience, 80% of people leave China precisely because of "low moral character" (that is, low moral character, not in the sense of being robbed on the street like in Barcelona, but in social interactions). Japan is good for its manners, but terrible for foreigners in terms of integration into society. China readily accepts foreigners, and they can become part of the community within a year, but the everyday environment is difficult for newcomers to adapt to. Slurping, spitting, loud conversations, chaotic driving, and trash don't add to the appeal. Yes, I didn’t describe Paris, they have the same problems, but China is not France, and it must somehow improve the quality of its citizens, as they did in Singapore.

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You keep framing things from the perspective of appealing to foreigners. It’s pathetic as you constantly come off as begging for validation. It reminds me of this Vietnamese who prided themselves over other Asians for not slurping noodles because they were colonized by the civilized French. The point of social development is indeed true for China as it’s a big country and many parts are still underdeveloped. However you frame development as something to do so that foreigners will like you and stay. They should develop to make their own society better. Does it matter that 80% of people leave? How is this different from any other non-immigrant destination country? What people are you even talking about? Foreigners in China are there to do extended sightseeing/vacation or business. Very few intend to live there long term even if you are Sinophilic. Judging by your previous posts I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and you are referring to sinophilic foreigners disappointed in the country and its peoples low moral character which causes them to leave. This is normal for all countries. Most of these people like countries for dumb commercial reasons and then leave disappointed. The other group are when richer expats move into poorer countries to abuse the low cost of living and currency advantages. They also live in their own bubble away from poor people in their own exclusive gated community. This is what people do in SEA and recently JP from my observations (also some parts of Latin America). Appealing to this group is mentally colonized behavior.

ComradeVortex said:

I’m trying to understand what the heck you’re trying to prove here.

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So soft power is you being a moth attracted to a flame. Soft power is you being a fish attracted to a shiny object not seeing the hook connected to it. You don’t know what is yourself except someone told you it’s important so you blindly want it. If you can’t explain to me it’s importance and what one gets from having it, that’s what it means.

A MacGuffin is an object, event, or person in a story that is crucial to the plot but has no intrinsic importance to the narrative itself; it functions as a plot device to motivate characters and keep the story moving forward, but can be easily replaced or irrelevant to the audience's understanding.

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Soft power is something so worthless and meaningless... why does anyone want to have it? No one can explain it because they don't want to admit it's a cover to establish a hierarchy defining who gets what more than the other. And it's a hierarchy base on stupid shit and nothing of value. When I was in school, a black student told me Asians were inferior because the didn't have any professional athletes. So what if you can hit a home run or make a touchdown? How does that benefit anyone else when that happens? It has no application in life. It has no power over anyone who doesn't value it. How do you get people who don't value it to recognize it in order to follow it? It has to be done through a mechanism of reward or punishment. This is where they say why China doesn't have soft power because the only way China can get people to do what they want is through money or force. In other words China doesn't fool people with bullshit.

Maikeru said:

Singers - Nina (99 Luftballoons), Skorpion, Rammstein, Kraftwerk.

Movies: Das Boot, Downfall, Run Lola Run.

Just off the top of my head. Dunno about video games.

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Whay about Modern Talking?

I think it might be more useful to divide Soft Power into two components, at the top it's basically Elite Capture, and at the lower end, it's "popular appeal”.

Israel has much of the former, while Philippines have mainly the latter (especially with white middle aged men).

K Soft Power leans towards the baser variant.

4Tran said:

I keep circling back to the idea that soft power is pretty meaningless unless it's backed up by hard power, and that true soft power is really just another expression of hard power to begin with. Look at Korea, which I think we can all agree is supposed to have pretty decent soft power. The ICE crackdown on that Hyundai happened, and what did that soft power gain for Korea? Did Korea's soft power give any hesitation on ICE's decision to go with the raid? Did it significantly change how Korea's workers were treated? What country out there stood up for them and condemned the American actions? Deep down, what benefit does Korea's soft power actually get when push comes to shove?

And if you think that it just means that Korean soft power is overstated, then just substitute it with any other country in the world. How well would any of them come off? Maybe some of the European countries would have garnered more support, but even if this support was more substantial, it'd probably have more to do with the image of white people being put in chains and we're not talking about soft power any more.

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There's a few countries with true soft power, as in, foreigners will fight for them, donate money to them, etc for free.

In fact by this metric, China has far more soft power than South Korea. There are Africans and Asians who went to war for Chinese ideologies like Maoism. Has even a single person went to war for Korean ideology?

AssassinsMace said:

So soft power is you being a moth attracted to a flame. Soft power is you being a fish attracted to a shiny object not seeing the hook connected to it. You don’t know what is yourself except someone told you it’s important so you blindly want it. If you can’t explain to me it’s importance and what one gets from having it, that’s what it means.

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That’s not what I asked. wuguanhui meanwhile perfectly explained the concept.

Eventine said:

Entertainment power is not soft power. South Korea is entertaining. It does not actually have soft power.

True soft power is stuff like your language being the global language so everyone elite has to know it, having the world's best & brightest educated in your universities, people starting revolutions to imitate your system of government, etc.

South Korea doesn't have any of that.

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Even when Japanese was almost close to total US gdp, very few people actually learned japanese. The reason is simple. People try to learn a language if they think they can migrate to that country and have a better life.

English is popular because people want to migrate to english speaking countries. This is because English speaking countries are rich, have lots of good paying jobs and also lax immigration laws. This goal defines all aspects of english learning focus in many poor developing countries.

Korean and Japanese can never be popular around the world because of their much smaller economy and lack of ability to host educated migrants.

Chinese language will not be popular until China becomes a rich country in nominal terms with GDP per capita atleast reaching UK, France levels. Once that happens and there is enough job demand for immigrants, you will see a bigger uptick in students coming in and also learning Chinese as second language in various countries.