Chinese semiconductor industry


Hendrik_2000

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32nm, that's similar to the NXE3100 ASML delivered in 2010, 5 years before the 16nm capable, 80W NXE3350B.
It is an old article dated back 2017 I guess there is progress since then. But the reason I post it is to show that the research has been ongoing for a long time.
So I guess that now they are working on 14nm
 

Skywatcher

Senior Member
It is an old article dated back 2017 I guess there is progress since then. But the reason I post it is to show that the research has been ongoing for a long time.
So I guess that now they are working on 14nm
Well, the Changchun Institute's EUV prototype, which is scheduled for introduction by 2022, has a power source that's "close to 125W. The 13nm capable NXE3340B uses a 140W EUV source, so the 2022 Changchun machine is probably closer to 13nm than 16nm in terms of feature resolution (it probably could support 5nm production as well in pinch)
 

Hendrik_2000

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I think they need to introduce the new power source faster than 2022. Mean time see how much money Samsung plow into this semi conductor business
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Samsung Takes Another Step in $116 Billion Plan to Take on TSMC
Sohee Kim
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May 20, 2020, 9:00 PM CDT

(Bloomberg) -- Samsung Electronics Co. has begun building a cutting-edge chip production line intended to help it take on Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. in the business of making silicon for external clients.
South Korea’s largest company said it’s started construction on a 5-nanometer fabrication facility in Pyeongtaek, south of Seoul, dedicated to its made-to-order foundry business, an arena TSMC dominates. Based on the Extreme Ultraviolet Lithography or EUV process, Samsung expects the fab’s output to go toward applications from 5G networking to high-performance computing from the second half of 2021, it said in a statement.

Samsung, the world’s largest maker of computer memory, smartphones and displays, in 2019 outlined its aim of spending $116 billion to compete with TSMC and Intel Corp. in contract chipmaking, making silicon for customers like Qualcomm Inc. or Nvidia Corp. Its announcement on Thursday coincides with the announcement of restrictions on the sale of semiconductors made with American gear to China’s Huawei Technologies Co., a constraint that threatens more than a tenth of TSMC’s business.
“This will enable us to break new ground while driving robust growth for Samsung’s foundry business,” ES Jung, head of the contract chipmaking division, said in a statement.

Samsung first unveiled its expansion blueprint in April 2019, outlining at the time its goal of hiring thousands and ramping up investment in logic chips in the years leading up to 2030. That initiative arose as sales of smartphones and consumer electronics plateaued and competition from Chinese rivals depressed margins.
EUV is the latest and most advanced chipmaking method, requiring machines costing tens of millions of dollars and delivering better precision and performance in the chips it produces. TSMC and Samsung, through its spending plan, are the leaders in developing that process and expanding into 5nm and smaller manufacturing nodes.

Before the arrival Covid-19, Samsung had begun collaborating with major clients on designing and manufacturing custom chips and that work was already starting to add to its revenue, a Samsung executive has said. The company’s newest fab in Pyeongtaek joins another 5nm facility in Hwaseong that will begin production in the second half of this year.
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Gatekeeper

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Guys, I'm not a techy. So please bear with me. I'm still confess about the impact or potential impact the embargo on tech by the USA has on Huawei's ability to manufacturing their phones.

@Hendrik_2000

What so special about Samsung's chip? And who's to say they won't be under sanctions if they supply China?

Thanks
 

Hendrik_2000

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  • #255
Guys, I'm not a techy. So please bear with me. I'm still confess about the impact or potential impact the embargo on tech by the USA has on Huawei's ability to manufacturing their phones.

@Hendrik_2000

What so special about Samsung's chip? And who's to say they won't be under sanctions if they supply China?

Thanks
I posted the article to hihglight the enormous sum of money required for building semiconductor fab. Recently we have news of central gov inject 3 billion US dollar in SMIC capital But that is not even close to what Samsung spend
 

Gatekeeper

Captain
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I posted the article to hihglight the enormous sum of money required for building semiconductor fab. Recently we have news of central gov inject 3 billion US dollar in SMIC capital But that is not even close to what Samsung spend
Thanks, so what do you think will be the impact of Trump's embargo? I feel this is their trump card. China and Huawei could struggle with this move by Trump. But as I said I'm not techy. So I'm not sure what alternative are out there to mitigate this.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Junior Member
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I posted the article to hihglight the enormous sum of money required for building semiconductor fab. Recently we have news of central gov inject 3 billion US dollar in SMIC capital But that is not even close to what Samsung spend
I think it's appropriate for the stage SMIC is in. It's using earlier technology and it still has to do a lot of R&D and limited product development. The floodgates will really open once the technology is ready.

Besides, Chinese government announced a $1.4 trillion spending plan on high tech. Quite a bit of that will make its way to Chinese semiconductor companies.
 

localizer

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I think it's appropriate for the stage SMIC is in. It's using earlier technology and it still has to do a lot of R&D and limited product development. The floodgates will really open once the technology is ready.

Besides, Chinese government announced a $1.4 trillion spending plan on high tech. Quite a bit of that will make its way to Chinese semiconductor companies.

Well like I said, there's a war chest of 1T in treasuries and 3T in dollars.

It needs to go into Semiconductor supply chain, jet engine supply chain, high precision machinery, and critical biomedical technologies.
 

SPOOPYSKELETON

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New Huawei Sanctions by U.S. Are Less Than Meet the Eye, Lawyers Say

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That will hit Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. Ltd. (TSMC), which supplies more than 90% of Huawei’s smartphone chips. TSMC uses American-made equipment to manufacture those chips.

But the rules apply only to chips designed by Huawei, lawyers said. Foreign chip manufacturers will still be able to sell chips to Huawei that are not custom-made for Huawei.
Interesting, to say the least. It was mentioned earlier that the Trump administration was looking to tighten this ban shortly after they announced it. I guess this loophole is what they were referring to.

The new rules aim more at cutting off Huawei’s ability to dictate specification standards to the chip industry, former White House trade adviser Clete Whillems told Caixin.

If Huawei wants to advance its technology in a specific way and provides the design and specifications to a semiconductor company, this would be impeded by the new rules, which could impact Huawei’s future technology advancement and efficiency, Whillems said.
 

SPOOPYSKELETON

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More evidence emerges that the TSMC ban is far less severe than we thought at first.

From The Economist.

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The new rule may miss its target entirely. Huawei pays contract manufacturers to assemble its phones and base stations. The chips that tsmc makes for Huawei are sent to those companies, not to the Chinese firm, for integration. Finished products are usually sent directly to Huawei’s customers. Huawei need not touch the blacklisted chips at any point. This may get Huawei off the hook. Some lawyers note that the new restriction does not seem to apply to items sent to third parties and not destined for Huawei, even where these are being supplied at Huawei’s direction.
My conclusion is that America either shows its serious and implements Iran level sanctions on Huawei, or it will let this fade into the background and hope ppl forget about it.

What is more interesting is the frenzied reaction it provoked on this forum (of which I was a part of). I think there is the assumption that America is just itching to go to 100% because of all the shit it talks. Chronic pessimism, so to say.
 

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