Chinese semiconductor industry

WTAN said:

This company probably got a second hand ASML1980i from Hynix. They likely wanted to save money and also thought that getting a second hand model would be less noticeable to the American Admin.
Very soon the SMEE 28mm DUVL will be available and you will no longer see this type of transactions.
Purchasing ASML machines is down right risky as they could have made the payment upfront and ended up not receiving the machine.

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The complexity of the 7nm nodes and below and the sophistication of the ASML EUV machines is such that even Intel, despite being supplied by ASML with such machines it has not been able to succeed in mastering such nodes.

What is the main challenge of such highly precise nodes, is it mostly the preparation of materials like the photoresists and the methodology of the processes of how to use the tools, or the tools themselves?

Weaasel said:

The complexity of the 7nm nodes and below and the sophistication of the ASML EUV machines is such that even Intel, despite being supplied by ASML with such machines it has not been able to succeed in mastering such nodes.

What is the main challenge of such highly precise nodes, is it mostly the preparation of materials like the photoresists and the methodology of the processes of how to use the tools, or the tools themselves?

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With each new Node, there is more complexity, more time involved and cost.
New nodes require more expensive machinery to produce.
Mask making and multi-patterning becomes more complex and expensive.
Chip design becomes more complex eg: Finfet has been extended to 7nm Chips.
So the Fabrication of the Chip is more complex and is more time consuming.
Yes, even Intel is facing huge difficulties and is struggling to keep up with TSMC and Samsung.

cbl21 said:

Is 1nm even possible?

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Its impossible 1nm chip. If im not mistaken intel change the rule about nm classification. After 45nm, they used transistor density to determine next nm. In sense foundry can make even below 7nm using duv tools by making 3d stacking of course coming with inefficient interm on output wafer.

sndef888 said:

28nm is really the absolute bare minimum that China needs to not be held by America by the balls. This area of development needs to speed up to reach at least 14nm asap

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Actually 45 nm is the bare minimum.

Intel's world's famous I7 CPU even good this day was made using 45nm process, which China already mastered and achieved 100% domestic production capability !

JSL said:

Actually 45 nm is the bare minimum.

Intel's world's famous I7 CPU even good this day was made using 45nm process, which China already mastered and achieved 100% domestic production capability !

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That is "survival"minimum, my 6th gen i7 is using 14nm (5+ year old). China need bare min commerical level to move forward.

@WTAN

I know its SCMP , but I'm curious about the 12nm chips FAB, is this the one you mentioned about the new SMIC FAB that will use SMEE 28nm DUVL due this year?

From JSCh (Pakistan defense forum)

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Shanghai wants to roll out 12-nanometre chips this year as part of an ambitious effort to strengthen domestic production and cut reliance on imported semiconductors.

• Shanghai authorities did not elaborate on what foreign technologies would be needed to achieve 12-nm mass production or which companies will take the lead
• However, it is likely that SMIC will be put in charge of the project as it can produce chips at the 14-nm and 12-nm nodes ‘without serious problems’, said an analyst

Oldschool said:

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huawei to sue tsmc for damages? its fab at nanjing could be hostage?

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The author of this article from Asiatimes is from from Ningbo but has since settled in Hong Kong. Most of his articles are biased anti-China. His fb account list him as anti-CCP or basically part of the anti-China crowd.

I have found this. If I am reading well it looks like EUVL will be ready in 2 years.

Alb said:

I have found this. If I am reading well it looks like EUVL will be ready in 2 years.

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@Alb

2022 roll out?

@WTAN

All your post had been vindicated, hopefully more info and news especially the light source.

ansy1968 said:

@WTAN

I know its SCMP , but I'm curious about the 12nm chips FAB, is this the one you mentioned about the new SMIC FAB that will use SMEE 28nm DUVL due this year?

From JSCh (Pakistan defense forum)

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Shanghai wants to roll out 12-nanometre chips this year as part of an ambitious effort to strengthen domestic production and cut reliance on imported semiconductors.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

• Shanghai authorities did not elaborate on what foreign technologies would be needed to achieve 12-nm mass production or which companies will take the lead
• However, it is likely that SMIC will be put in charge of the project as it can produce chips at the 14-nm and 12-nm nodes ‘without serious problems’, said an analyst

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The Shanghai Local Government is very ambitious and has plans to turn the City into a High Tech manufacturing Hub.
Yes SMIC will build 12nm to 14nm Chips in a FAB in Shanghai. SMIC will likely use the new SMEE 28nm DUVL to produce these Chips.
In any case the US sanctions against SMIC only apply to Chips below the 10nm node.
So SMIC should be able to use its existing 14nm production line to make these Chips.
If i am not mistaken, SMIC has recently completed a very large brand new 14nm FAB and they should be able to produce these Chips there.
The Shanghai Govt also wants the new EUVL to be built in Shanghai and this is why the Shanghai Institute of Optics is developing a LPP EUV Light Source and ICRD is doing EUV research at the Shanghai Synchrotron.