Chinese semiconductor industry

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

european_guy

Junior Member
Registered Member
tonyget said:
As you can see form this Samsung 5nm node example. Different layer requires different lithography machines，for a 5nm process they use EUV and all the way down to i-Line


View attachment 106000
Click to expand...

Very interesting table. This kinf of information is really quite difficult to find.

I am surprised Samsung for 5nm uses EUV only for the bottom metal layers. Samsung has no problems getting ASML EUV machine, but they don't use it so much.

The critical layers of fins and gates are built with SAQP and SADP using an Arf immersion lithography (this is quite surprising).

As well explained in the article, the reason why they use EUV for metal is that here we have both horizontal and vertical lines, instead SADP works only with parallel lines.
 
W

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
european_guy said:
I really don't want to defend ASML CEO, but regarding that infamous comment, IMO it was just too technical, but instead it has been considered to be disrespectful. I really don't think he disrespects China, actually ASML is trying its best to keep working in China.

Comment was too technical, but....it was true at that time.

ASML machines have hundreds of thousand of parts, with thousands of very high-tech and highly-specialized suppliers. You can have all the blue prints you want, but without a complex network of very niche suppliers you can't build that machine. We are witnessing it with SMEE and in general with Chinese equipment manufacturers, we now realize how many years it takes to build a reliable supplier chain including the suppliers of the suppliers. It is a long and painful multi year effort for China...it is almost impossible for anyone else.

Without this very specialized supply chain, blue prints are just a piece of paper.

For instance (sorry for trivializing the subject, it is just to clarify better my point), on a blue-print could be drawn an optical lens with tolerances of few nanometer, or a special component with super-high purity or special surface finishing. Well, you have the drawing, now do it!

I guess this was the meaning of his comment. But it was took in a political way. OTH a CEO should know better, he is not just an engineer or a technical leader, he is also the company leader and should not fall in this rhetoric traps.
Click to expand...
Of course China wouldn't just overnight when given the blue prints build a satisfactorily functional EUV machine, but given China's resources and the laws of physics being the same everywhere, China can CERTAINLY given time eventually produce an EUV machine within about a decade or less, especially if given blue prints.
 
W

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased said:
Nikon is not competitive with ASML for leading edge logic due to their lack of dual stage. The second stage is used for simultaneously measuring the 3D topography of the wafer so that the source has optimal depth of focus with regard to the specific wafer under exposure. Nikon requires an external module for that.

From what I remember it's mostly Intel buying new Nikon tools. It is also why SMEE is being held to such a high bar, as the dual wafer stage is very difficult to master.
Click to expand...
But the point is if ASML is banned from making high end DUV sales to Chinese companies and Nikon, Canon, or any other Japanese company are not, despite not having ultimate top end DUV quality as ASML does or other lithography machines such as nano imprint machines that are comparable , but still satisfactory ones, SMIC and Chinese companies will immediately fill the void left by ASML with Japanese purchases, even if they have stockpiled a thousand years worth of ASML machines...
 
O

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Weaasel said:
But the point is if ASML is banned from making high end DUV sales to Chinese companies and Nikon, Canon, or any other Japanese company are not, despite not having ultimate top end DUV quality as ASML does or other lithography machines such as nano imprint machines that are comparable , but still satisfactory ones, SMIC and Chinese companies will immediately fill the void left by ASML with Japanese purchases, even if they have stockpiled a thousand years worth of ASML machines...
Click to expand...
That's the whole point of the US having "discussions" (force) with Japan to use export controls on semiconductor equipment
 
Last edited:
T

tonyget

Senior Member
Registered Member
european_guy said:
Very interesting table. This kinf of information is really quite difficult to find.

I am surprised Samsung for 5nm uses EUV only for the bottom metal layers. Samsung has no problems getting ASML EUV machine, but they don't use it so much.

The critical layers of fins and gates are built with SAQP and SADP using an Arf immersion lithography (this is quite surprising).

As well explained in the article, the reason why they use EUV for metal is that here we have both horizontal and vertical lines, instead SADP works only with parallel lines.
Click to expand...

It all comes down to cost. The operational cost of advanced lithography machine is much greater than lower end one，so they only use it on critical layers
 
P

pbd456

Junior Member
Registered Member
Weaasel said:
Of course China wouldn't just overnight when given the blue prints build a satisfactorily functional EUV machine, but given China's resources and the laws of physics being the same everywhere, China can CERTAINLY given time eventually produce an EUV machine within about a decade or less, especially if given blue prints.
Click to expand...
Which company is currently responsible for building an EUV prototype? SMEE is working on DUVi.. is it something SMEE doing after the completionof DUVi?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top