Chinese semiconductor industry

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tphuang

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daifo said:
First known RISC-V laptop , running Alibaba T-Core quad core Xuantie C910 processor @ 2.5 GHz. A Hacker Hacker special at 1500$ and not much ported software to the platform yet.

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Alibaba press release on the particular chip. Interestingly, besides a linux port, they have a low level partial android port. Sound's like these are still "development" type boards to further progress the technology and not ready for mainstream.

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It is quite expensive. Not competitive pricing wise with ARM processors, so definitely a limited market for now. Probably just here to attract the people looking to test out RISC-V computer with an open source CPU.

Overall, Alibaba/Pingtouge is investing in a new space. This is among their earlier trial products. I think they are making a good bet here. With Apple getting into RISC-V, there will probably be wider adaptation of RISC-V in the future. Alibaba could be getting a head start here against American competitors. Also, makes a lot of sense for them to invest in RISC-V if ARMS ever cut off licensing for Chinese design shops.

Keep in mind though, the C910 CPU on TH1520 itself is based on TSCMC 12 nm process, so it's not exactly state of the art.
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I think that's probably because Xuantie 910 was actually announced back in 2019 and used 12 nm process. Even though C910 itself seems to have only been revealed and open sourced a year ago along with a few other CPUs.
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Their next RISC-V CPU will probably use more advanced process.
 
siegecrossbow

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AssassinsMace said:
I'm no expert in semiconductors. I don't know what it takes for domestic production. I know its takes a web of different technologies where why the West is trying to scare China into thinking the Chinese can't do it themselves alone. Why do they care when they're banning all the technologies they can to stop China from domestic production? It's because the goal from the beginning was not to stop China and leave it behind because of lame façade excuses like human rights. China is a continent size market and still growing. It's not like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan dependent on exports for their way of life. They want to make money from China and they want to make more. It was all about extortion to get China to surrender to literally all US/Western demands including everything that had nothing to do with semiconductors and technology. They bet big that the Chinese could not do these things on their own hence why the US had the leverage. Why, because they wanted to believe, not just believed, that they were genetically superior and the Chinese were genetically inferior and that would prevent it from happening. So holding semiconductors hostage from China was worth the momentary loss of the largest market for chips in the world because the rewards from China surrendering was going to be like nothing else they've experience before. Here's where I've been saying when will the US realize their own racism is a national security threat? Their racism makes them think this way and now they've realized they made the wrong bet and they're going to lose big time. How do I know this? Because now it's all about desperately trying to stop China from domestic production not as simple as just denying chips. Why worry about that if they believe just denying chips was going to get the results they aimed for? They're not going to stop their racism because they still want to believe hence why they're moving the goal posts to denying the technology for domestic production.

Why do you think lemming Europe is following the US over over a cliff? Why did Europe despite loathing Donald Trump did everything he demanded regarding China? The stereotype of Europe here in the US is they're more evolved and intellectual and yet they blindly obey the US on international affairs that will cost them embarrassingly the basics in life like in a third world country. It's because this is it! China is shifting the whole world dynamic against a Western dominating one without firing a shot. They've spent so much time and resources sucking up to the US that any change to the status quo would be a huge loss for them. It would be like starting over being equal to everyone else and more time and resources they would have to spend to get back to what they already had. Besides it would would be insulting to them if they had to suck up to China like they did to the US to get it. They think they're the royalty of all humanity. All the countries going along with what the US wants despite the huge losses they are suffering in going against China are doing it because they're going to lose their place they worked so hard for to be in a better place than mostly everyone else in the Western system.

That's what it means when they charged China is undermining the Western world order. It isn't that China is more likely to invade another country or abuse human rights. It's about China not doing it their way which is not recognizing they're the authority and China must follow doing everything their way which keeps the minority West having all the power in the world. They can't keep check on China's technology thinking China will be unethical and abuse technology when it's really about they want to control and make all the money from new technology. Everything they accuse China will abuse, they're already doing it and how outrageous China doesn't recognizes how only the West can only do things they don't want others doing.

In a way all of Biden actions against China is a red herring and he knows it. He can't stop it but he has to show he did something so he can't be accused of doing nothing. It's like the head of the Women's Tennis Association cancelling all WTA events in China over the rape accusation of the Chinese Tennis player. It was seen as a heroic act by him. Those events were already cancelled because of COVID-19. They can spin it that China cheated or it was someone else's fault giving China that technology. They want to make people think it's all about genetics but China's rise makes what they believe in question. Also another thing they don't want the world knowing... It's about money. You have enough of it, you can do everything the West can and more. There are articles out that say that Chinese scientists in the hundreds are leaving the US and many are going to China because they see the US as dangerous for the lives of their family. Each one of them a potential Tsien Hsue-Shen. And today, just like back then, they don't see their racial abuse of people being a danger to their national security.
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With enough resources it is humanly possible to produce semiconductor equipment because the scientists and engineers in the West are humans, not gods.
 
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tphuang said:
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It is quite expensive. Not competitive pricing wise with ARM processors, so definitely a limited market for now. Probably just here to attract the people looking to test out RISC-V computer with an open source CPU.

Overall, Alibaba/Pingtouge is investing in a new space. This is among their earlier trial products. I think they are making a good bet here. With Apple getting into RISC-V, there will probably be wider adaptation of RISC-V in the future. Alibaba could be getting a head start here against American competitors. Also, makes a lot of sense for them to invest in RISC-V if ARMS ever cut off licensing for Chinese design shops.

Keep in mind though, the C910 CPU on TH1520 itself is based on TSCMC 12 nm process, so it's not exactly state of the art.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


I think that's probably because Xuantie 910 was actually announced back in 2019 and used 12 nm process. Even though C910 itself seems to have only been revealed and open sourced a year ago along with a few other CPUs.
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Their next RISC-V CPU will probably use more advanced process.
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My own opinion here, this product must be more mature than meets the eye.
"Testing" RISC-V with such an expensive platform makes very little sense.
It would make more sense to release a RISC-V SBC (single board computer)/barebones config to cut down on the price to get the platform out to as many people as possible. Especially if your target it devs, who don't need the monitor in a laptop.
 
tphuang

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KYli said:
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wtf is wrong with these people? You have SMIC who is already able to produce N+1 now and N+2 next year, they are concerned about a startup that might be producing 28 nm in 3 years? This level of panic is almost amusing if it wasn't so utterly ridiculous.

And somehow, they seem to be unaware that Huawei is also going to produce its own chips.

I bet some of these people in Washington are so obsessed with China that they can never get a good night of sleep.
 
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gadgetcool5

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tphuang said:
wtf is wrong with these people? You have SMIC who is already able to produce N+1 now and N+2 next year, they are concerned about a startup that might be producing 28 nm in 3 years? This level of panic is almost amusing if it wasn't so utterly ridiculous.

And somehow, they seem to be unaware that Huawei is also going to produce its own chips.

I bet some of these people in Washington are so obsessed with China that they can never get a good night of sleep.
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Well this is the kind of fanatical paranoia that got the West to the top and keeps it there. I wish Chinese had the same.
 
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