Chinese semiconductor industry

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hashtagpls

hashtagpls

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The Americans brought piss to a shitfight; i'll bet US policymakers and Google and Apple etc thought they could steal more market share and kill chinese competitors but they just signed their own death warrant. Why would Chinese firms rely on a supplier who now has to get permission from a hostile USG? You can bet your ass they're gonna be making long term plans around de-americanising supply chains.
 
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ougoah

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hashtagpls said:
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The Americans brought piss to a shitfight; i'll bet US policymakers and Google and Apple etc thought they could steal more market share and kill chinese competitors but they just signed their own death warrant. Why would Chinese firms rely on a supplier who now has to get permission from a hostile USG? You can bet your ass they're gonna be making long term plans around de-americanising supply chains.
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Because they are actually cowards who do not have true resolve. They poked and realised they don't have the means to enter such a struggle so they are going to continue changing the tune as they learn. Almost everything they think they know about China is false or at least inaccurate. This means experimental moves disprove hypothesis and back to changing policy. Obviously they don't expect China to stop weaning itself and this article from GT is a no shit Sherlock.
 
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Orthan

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caudaceus said:
While this thread is for the Chinese semiconductor industry, I would like to ask about the semiconductor capability of Russia.
The reason I ask this is that assuming acceleration of chips and AI introduction into the military, Joe Biden got elected and would play hardball against Russia then Russian military future could be in a dire situation if they can not access semi and chip products for their military.
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AFAIK, russia manufactures its own military chips. Military chips dont need to be as advanced as civilian ones.
 
daifo

daifo

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The empire strikes back ;)

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" The fabrication facility is expected to start with the manufacture of low-end 45nm chips, the paper said on Sunday, citing people familiar with the project. Huawei aims to make 28nm chips for “Internet of things” devices by the end of 2021, and produce 20nm chips for 5G telecom equipment by late 2022, the report said. "


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The project, first reported by Chinese newspaper Caixin last month, could also jump-start China’s ambitions to shake off its dependency on foreign chip technology, particularly from the US, which wants to slow China’s development as a technology power.
"
 
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weig2000

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Pretty much as expected, and sooner than many people thought.

Huawei and SMIC will be the leaders of the Chinese semiconductor industry, with Huawei taking the IDM route and SMIC the fab model. With Huawei's resources, its world-class IC design capability and the broad range of downstream ICT products, chip manufacturing has been the missing link. Huawei will also serve as the integrator of the joint efforts from equipment vendors and materials suppliers, a role no other Chinese company can play better. Additionally, Huawei has been developing in-house EDA for some times now.

So with CCP just announcing the 14th five-year plan guidelines stressing technology self-reliance, the future direction of China's indigenous semiconductor industry development is starting to take shape. They just need to get the job done.
 
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OppositeDay

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weig2000 said:
Pretty much as expected, and sooner than many people thought.

Huawei and SMIC will be the leaders of the Chinese semiconductor industry, with Huawei taking the IDM route and SMIC the fab model. With Huawei's resources, its world-class IC design capability and the broad range of downstream ICT products, chip manufacturing has been the missing link. Huawei will also serve as the integrator of the joint efforts from equipment vendors and materials suppliers, a role no other Chinese company can play better. Additionally, Huawei has been developing in-house EDA for some times now.

So with CCP just announcing the 14th five-year plan guidelines stressing technology self-reliance, the future direction of China's indigenous semiconductor industry development is starting to take shape. They just need to get the job done.
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What Washington failed to understand was that the past failures of Chinese semiconductor industry were not results of any lack of technical talents but a lack of organizational capacity. There were little market incentives for Chinese companies to develop and use Chinese fabricated chips, so while government spent a ton of money those money went to inefficient players who's more interested in cheating government subsidies.

Now Washington has forced Huawei, the Chinese company with by far the highest organizational capacity and track records of turning investments into products, into the fabrication business. It's only a matter of time.
 
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latenlazy

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f
OppositeDay said:
What Washington failed to understand was that the past failures of Chinese semiconductor industry were not results of any lack of technical talents but a lack of organizational capacity. There were little market incentives for Chinese companies to develop and use Chinese fabricated chips, so while government spent a ton of money those money went to inefficient players who's more interested in cheating government subsidies.

Now Washington has forced Huawei, the Chinese company with by far the highest organizational capacity and track records of turning investments into products, into the fabrication business. It's only a matter of time.
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Yep, but I would characterize this even more as a problem of market opportunity than organizational capacity. The receivers of government subsidies weren't so much cheating the government as they were sustaining the human and physical capital necessary to wait out market conditions until an opportunity could be found and exploited, which is what the point of these subsidies were. Huawei wouldn't be able to pivot so fast if these prior efforts didn't exist to establish the talent pool and basic competences incubating in the companies that were receiving government money and support. I think it's pretty pertinent to recognize that Huawei isn't starting from scratch, but is leveraging a basic ecosystem that was set up for them and other Chinese firms by government industrial policy.
 
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ansy1968

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OppositeDay said:
What Washington failed to understand was that the past failures of Chinese semiconductor industry were not results of any lack of technical talents but a lack of organizational capacity. There were little market incentives for Chinese companies to develop and use Chinese fabricated chips, so while government spent a ton of money those money went to inefficient players who's more interested in cheating government subsidies.

Now Washington has forced Huawei, the Chinese company with by far the highest organizational capacity and track records of turning investments into products, into the fabrication business. It's only a matter of time.
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Hi OppositeDay, daifo, weigh2000,

So all discussion we had with WTAN, latenlazy, KYli, machupicu and others , one by one had come to fruition, here are some of the list. hopefully more will be unveil in 2021.

1) Huawei 45nm FABS online this year..... check

2) SMIC 28nm FABS SMEE 28NM DUVL) online early/mid 2021..... check

3) Huawei 28 FABS(SMEE 28NM DUVL) online late 2021/early 2022...... check

4) initial mass production 7nm SMIC N+1 mid 2021.....check

5) SMIC 7nm N+2 late 2021 intro with 2022 mass production ..... TBA?

6) EUVL with DPP 2021.....TBA?
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
ansy1968 said:
Hi OppositeDay, daifo, weigh2000,

So all discussion we had with WTAN, latenlazy, KYli, machupicu and others , one by one had come to fruition, here are some of the list. hopefully more will be unveil in 2021.

1) Huawei 45nm FABS online this year..... check

2) SMIC 28nm FABS SMEE 28NM DUVL) online early/mid 2021..... check

3) Huawei 28 FABS(SMEE 28NM DUVL) online late 2021/early 2022...... check

4) initial mass production 7nm SMIC N+1 mid 2021.....check

5) SMIC 7nm N+2 late 2021 intro with 2022 mass production ..... TBA?

6) EUVL with DPP 2021.....TBA?
Click to expand...
If I had to bet I think EUV would take a lot longer than 2021. At least till 2022 if not longer.
 
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