Chinese Rail Transport Appreciation & News

Proton said:

Roads are universally understood as necessary infrastructure not primarily meant to generate profit.
Railways are understood the same in much of the World, but one big exception is the US, were it's only considered worthwhile were it can cover its own costs; which is essentially never for public transporation when competing against government funded highways.

When you have a China-bashing video like this, it's obvious that the US dogma is selectively applied to China and it's simply implied that other rail-heavy areas - like the EU - are having profitable railways, despite governments footing the bill.

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Proton said:

Sorry, it's a bit too long for me to listen to all of it, but I remember looking into the topic a little bit a few years back, at the time there was a lot of buzz about how uneconomic the HSR was.

There were some obvious counterpoints to that like COVID skewing the numbers and Chinas economic growth creating more revenue down the line.

But perhaps "less obvious" (but not really) was the question of: Who carries the cost?
From what I could find China State Railway Group essentially paid for building the rail and the costs would thus appear on their (or their subsidiaries) balance sheet. Which is very different from how railways are paid for in the EU, were the state often paid for construction and pays for most of the maintenance.
So at the end of the day, the red numbers become "hidden" in the EU, as it's covered by the state to whatever extent is needed and any green numbers have to be seen in that context.

Is this anything you discussed?

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tphuang said:

If you don't give me the basic respect of listening to the episode, why would I answer you on this?

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tphuang said:

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I invited my friend Glenn on the latest episode of my podcast to talk about HSR. We debunked many of the attack on economics of HSR in China.

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jnd85 said:

Good episode! Economic externalities in general are often completely ignored in things like healthcare, education, not just transportation, so it was really refreshing to see that addressed.

In my understanding that historically there is almost no extremely large scale infrastructure project which is immediately profitable, so criticisms based solely on ticket sales or frieght transport largely ring hollow. Further, people frequently fail to consider that for every rider on HSR, you also have one fewer car clogging already congested highways and all the accompanying cost and pollution that results from that mode of transport.

If you ever decide to revisit the topic in a future podcast, I have some requests for sub-topics:
1 - China's future plans for continued HSR expansion (180000km rail and 60000km HSR by 2030) and how that will impact future economic and ecological prospects.
2 - How are different HSR lines in China different in their approaches? China's HSR has always pragmatically experimented with different technologies in trial areas before expanding, so what are the current next-gen approaches and will there be an even brighter future for HSR beyong the 2030 plan?
3 - How can China's rail improve beyond rail lines and engines themselves? For instance, how can rail be tied with other aspects of logistics and passanger transport in a complementary fashion to further national environmental objectives and reduce greenhouse imissions? What are the models to which China can look for inspiration?

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Imagine zooming through the Chinese countryside at 600 km per hour? A British vlogger recently had an up-close look at a prototype of China's latest superconducting maglev train at the China National Railway Track Test Center in Beijing.

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jnd85 said:

Good episode! Economic externalities in general are often completely ignored in things like healthcare, education, not just transportation, so it was really refreshing to see that addressed.

In my understanding that historically there is almost no extremely large scale infrastructure project which is immediately profitable, so criticisms based solely on ticket sales or frieght transport largely ring hollow. Further, people frequently fail to consider that for every rider on HSR, you also have one fewer car clogging already congested highways and all the accompanying cost and pollution that results from that mode of transport.

Click to expand...