Chinese Radar Developments - KLJ series and others

The Observer

Junior Member
Registered Member
It would work as conformal flat panel arrays like you see somewhere in the Chinese UAV thread where you see conformal arrays on the side or bottom of the UAV.

AESA physically looks like a wall of PC graphic cards, but a MIMO array looks like a green printed circuit board with a series of flat squares which are large ICs on it. Each square IC circuit is a complete module to itself, whereas an AESA module is like a PC card or server blade. On higher frequency MIMO arrays, a module SOC is as big as a quarter or dime.

I might see where you may use a SIAR on a UAV implemented either as a flat or conformal panel that is used to map a landscape.

Example of how a MIMO array looks like courtesy of Huawei. These things use up GaN and its a big consumer of it in China which globally dominates Gallium production.

View attachment 90134

Does using MIMO architecture mean radars can be lighter for a given size and performance?
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
AESA for civilian use.


4nGXcVU.jpg


 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Does using MIMO architecture mean radars can be lighter for a given size and performance?
MIMO radar is AESA radar utilizing MIMO to improve spatial (angular and distance) resolution by exploiting multipath phenomenon. It makes the radar to pin point the target more precisely in the field of view.

It does not improve the detection range (total emitting power and beam width) or field of view (scanning angles). Therefor it does not reduce size for the same performances of the two.

[addition]

MIMO radar isn't fundamantally different from non MIMO counterpart, but an improvement. To be precise, it should be called MIMO mode of AESA radar. The difference is that in MIMO mode the radar sends out multiple beams instead of one main beam. Non MIMO mode sends out one beam and receives multiple returns due to multipath phenomenon which is always there. In essense non MIMO mode is MISO (multi in single out). MIMO furthers the idea by sending multiple beams out, drastically increases the multipath. The drawback of MIMO mode is that since the total output power is distributed among all out going beams, each beam will have a shorter detection range. So a radar would MISO to first find the target, then after getting closer use MIMO to pin point the target.

It is not a new architecture, mostly software improvement with the necessary hardware upgrade for computational power and filters of othogonal signals.
 
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The Observer

Junior Member
Registered Member
MIMO radar is AESA radar utilizing MIMO to improve spatial (angular and distance) resolution by exploiting multipath phenomenon. It makes the radar to pin point the target more precisely in the field of view.

It does not improve the detection range (total emitting power and beam width) or field of view (scanning angles). Therefor it does not reduce size for the same performances of the two.

[addition]

MIMO radar isn't fundamantally different from non MIMO counterpart, but an improvement. To be precise, it should be called MIMO mode of AESA radar. The difference is that in MIMO mode the radar sends out multiple beams instead of one main beam. Non MIMO mode sends out one beam and receives multiple returns due to multipath phenomenon which is always there. In essense non MIMO mode is MISO (multi in single out). MIMO furthers the idea by sending multiple beams out, drastically increases the multipath. The drawback of MIMO mode is that since the total output power is distributed among all out going beams, each beam will have a shorter detection range. So a radar would MISO to first find the target, then after getting closer use MIMO to pin point the target.

It is not a new architecture, mostly software improvement with the necessary hardware upgrade for computational power and filters of othogonal signals.

I think you misunderstood my question. I was asking whether MIMO radar will be lighter than "traditional" AESA for the same size and performance, not whether it can be smaller for the same performance.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think you misunderstood my question. I was asking whether MIMO radar will be lighter than "traditional" AESA for the same size and performance, not whether it can be smaller for the same performance.
Ok, the answer is that it won't be lighter.

For AESA radar smaller means ligher and vise versa because the hardware difference between the two is ignorable if there is any difference.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Does anyone know the multi track quantity of Chinese radar on J-20 or J-10?
This quora answer claims that Chinese radar is weaker than old F-16 radar
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That Quoran is an Indian, I wouldn't bother reading his answer.

His answer (just glancing through it) seems reasonable.

First of all, no comments were really made about J-20 or J-10C (PLAAF's) radars. He used public information for the two smaller export AESA's designed for JF-17 block 3, a much less capable radar than J-10C's in service with PLAAF. To say nothing of the J-20's which would be more capable than J-10C's radar.

He also talks about F-16V (block 70). Not any "old" F-16. This is literally the latest and most modern F-16 version with a very modern AESA radar.

So no, he doesn't claim that Chinese radar are weaker than old F-16 radar. He claims that the two weakest, smallest, least powerful, export AESA radars that China itself doesn't use in PLAAF fighters, are weaker (according to publicly available information) than the latest and greatest F-16V's new AESA radar.

None of this would be surprising. The F-16 has a larger radome than the JF-17. The F-16 has a much more powerful engine than the JF-17. It has more room for auxiliary power units and probably other advantages over JF-17.

Basically the answer compares the latest JF-17's radars (options from 2018) to the latest F-16V which wasn't even in service anywhere in 2018.
 
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