Chinese purchase of Su-35

hlcc

Junior Member
Simple questions consider each aircraft on the same time period

Which has more powerful radar and more powerful engine?

F-15>F-16>MiG-21

E-3>F-15>F-16>Mirage III

There is a relation between engine power and radar range.

MiG-31>MiG-25>MiG-23>MiG-21

You can see the relation regardless you say radar is not related, each aircraft with more powerful radar had more powerful engines

F-14>F-16 Do you expect the MiG-21 to have a more powerful radar than MiG-31 or F-15?

Or A Mirage III have a more powerful radar than a F-22 or E-3, bigger aircraft have more powerful engines and more powerful radars
Nice picture but i do not know if its real

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You are talking nonsense yet again. Why do you keep on taking factual / somewhat factual information but interpreting them in absolutely bizarre & extremely biased methods? Correlation does not imply causation!
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
it is reported that su-35 al-41f1s engine's core has been welded in a way that PLAAf cannot RE it.
That is a tale from Arabian Nights. :D
How could the engine be maintained if it is impossible to dissemble?
If it is the same person/source reported this welding non-sense and the earlier delivery of Su-35, I would immediately call the whole thing a hoax, and never bother to listen to any more news of Su-35. The saga is getting crazier.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
You are talking nonsense yet again. Why do you keep on taking factual / somewhat factual information but interpreting them in absolutely bizarre & extremely biased methods? Correlation does not imply causation!
:rolleyes:He is always like that for years. Drifting, diverting, distracting, dragging unrelated, moving goal post, shifting subject, changing premises. After few exchanges you will give up talking with him.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Simple questions consider each aircraft on the same time period

Which has more powerful radar and more powerful engine?

F-15>F-16>MiG-21

E-3>F-15>F-16>Mirage III

There is a relation between engine power and radar range.

MiG-31>MiG-25>MiG-23>MiG-21

You can see the relation regardless you say radar is not related, each aircraft with more powerful radar had more powerful engines

F-14>F-16 Do you expect the MiG-21 to have a more powerful radar than MiG-31 or F-15?

It could simply be the size of the plane. Larger planes can fit larger and more powerful radars. And these larger planes need more powerful engines to push them... It may have nothing to do with direct link between engine power and radars.

this is the danger of making conclusions based solely on correlations.

One test: an F-15 has two engines while an F-16 has one. Is F-15's radar twice as powerful as the F-16's? even that correlation is dangerous...

The E3's radar is much much more powerful than those on fighter jets. Are E3's engines more powerful than those of the F-15 by the same magnitude? Those more knowledgeable might be able to help...
 

Twix101

Junior Member
It could simply be the size of the plane. Larger planes can fit larger and more powerful radars. And these larger planes need more powerful engines to push them... It may have nothing to do with direct link between engine power and radars.

this is the danger of making conclusions based solely on correlations.

One test: an F-15 has two engines while an F-16 has one. Is F-15's radar twice as powerful as the F-16's? even that correlation is dangerous...

The E3's radar is much much more powerful than those on fighter jets. Are E3's engines more powerful than those of the F-15 by the same magnitude? Those more knowledgeable might be able to help...

One example to counter this dubious argument about engine power.

Gulfstream G-550 "Eitam" used by Israeli Air Force as surveillance aircraft :

Engines : 2 *
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C4-11, 68.44 kN
Radar : EL/M-2085 AESA (2 Big + 2 Smaller Antennas) with up to 200 NM tracking range and 360° coverage.

F-18E Super Hornet, US Navy:

Engines : 2 *
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-GE-400, 97.9 kN
Radar : AN/APG-79 (One Antenna) With +70NM tracking range and 120° coverage.


Giving away power figures of radar (Max Power, Average Power, etc...), without actually know what does it really means is pure non-sense. Most of the time, a modern radar is NOT EMITTING, especially while it awaits returning echos from the pulse it just sent a few microseconds ago. And typically, most radar pulses last a few microseconds, or tens to hundred of microseconds if it is really long range (like a surveillance radar). This means that energy is stored in accumulators while the radar is not emitting (most of the time between 99% to 80%) and then freed in short bursts.

Antenna power is also correlated with antenna aperture size, but power does not makes everything, frequencies plays a part in range as well, Longer waves means longer range, but also a bigger antenna. That is why S/L band (1-2 GHz) is the privilegied frequency band for Surveillance and X-band (8-12GHz) is the privilegied frequency band for fighter-borne or ground based fire control radars.

I have seen another grave non-sense on a physical point of view : beam forming has nothing to do with frequencies, beam forming is a technique employed to mitigate location inaccuracies provocated by antenna beamwidth (measured in degrees), having a low beam-width makes air picture more accurate and tracking process more easier. Frequencies don't really play a part in this domain, rather, antenna shapes does, that is why some antennas tend to be oval because the goal is to mitigate beam width on a horizontal plan and thus getting a better spatial resolution.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Guys ... stop this nonsense about aircraft length and other dimensions correlating to performance !

If it is not related to the Su-35 in PLAAF service - and given the sparse information available I assume they do not ! - then simply do not post in this thread.

End of this debate.


Deino
 
re # 2238 .....re #2247..
confirmed all four birds on Chinese soil 25 December 2016, as promised !!

China receives first four Su-35s from Russia, says report
Gabriel Dominguez, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
28 December 2016
China's People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has taken delivery of the first four of 24 Russian-made Sukhoi Su-35 'Flanker-E' multirole fighter aircraft, according to the Russian Aviation website.
The four aircraft arrived on 25 December at a PLAAF flight training centre in Cangzhou, in China's northeastern Hebei Province, said the website. Russia's TASS news agency had previously reported that the first four Su-35s were to "fly over to China" by the same time.
Vyacheslav Shport, the governor of Khabarovsk Krai, had announced in September that the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Production Association (KnAAPO), which produces the aircraft, would deliver all 24 Su-35s between 2016 and 2018.
The aircraft deal, announced in November 2015 by Russian defence conglomerate Rostec, made China the first foreign contractor of the Su-35, which is claimed to be an upgraded and highly manoeuvrable '4++ generation' fighter with characteristics and performance close to those of upcoming 'fifth-generation' combat aircraft.
It is described by IHS Jane's All the World's Aircraft: Development & Production as having a maximum level speed of Mach 2.25 at 11,000 m (36,089 ft), a rate of climb of 16,800 m/min at sea level, a combat payload of 8,000 kg, and a maximum range with internal fuel of 1,529 km (sea level).

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Unfortunately Jane's is not particularly speedy or reliable regarding Chinese military news.

Quickly browsing all the posts since the holidays it seems that we still don't have any convincing photos despite the somewhat convincing reports?
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Unfortunately Jane's is not particularly speedy or reliable regarding Chinese military news.

Quickly browsing all the posts since the holidays it seems that we still don't have any convincing photos despite the somewhat convincing reports?


Oh come on ! This has been discussed to death ... they were confirmed by Russia, even Chinese spotters followed them and we have two blurred but legit images. So there's really nothing more to deny.

Why the Chinese side want to keep this deal, delivery and their base + mission at low level I don't know, but all we can do is to wait for some clearer images some day.

If You like look also here:
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Probably You need to scroll down a bit.

Deino
 
Oh come on ! This has been discussed to death ... they were confirmed by Russia, even Chinese spotters followed them and we have two blurred but legit images. So there's really nothing more to deny.

Why the Chinese side want to keep this deal, delivery and their base + mission at low level I don't know, but all we can do is to wait for some clearer images some day.

If You like look also here:
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Probably You need to scroll down a bit.

Deino

Don't get me wrong, I personally believe it's true and have always thought such a deal makes sense and could be a breakthrough not just for Chinese defense technology but also one for Sino-Russian defense ties. For these exact reasons I am sure is why the Chinese are keeping it quiet even more than usual. Just want to see some quality photos that can't possibly be photoshopped.
 
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