Chinese Naval Export: News, Views, Pics & Videos


tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
China still uses german exported engines in submarines? Isn't that a huge national security hole? Or is it just this thai version?
That seems to be bad reporting
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
The first contract already signed. The issue seems to be public backlash against military spending.

I think it's a good idea for China to donate more of its used equipments to friendly countries.
 

Maikeru

Senior Member
Registered Member
China still uses german exported engines in submarines? Isn't that a huge national security hole? Or is it just this thai version?
I suspect the answer is that China has a licence to use MTU diesel engines domestically only but not to export them, as this would detract from MTU Germany's market share. Not sure how this worked with Pakistan's Hangor class.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I suspect the answer is that China has a licence to use MTU diesel engines domestically only but not to export them, as this would detract from MTU Germany's market share. Not sure how this worked with Pakistan's Hangor class.

Its been many years like well over a decade that Pielstick and MTUs have long been replaced in PLAN service by domestic counterparts.
 

Helius

Junior Member
Registered Member
I suspect the answer is that China has a licence to use MTU diesel engines domestically only but not to export them, as this would detract from MTU Germany's market share. Not sure how this worked with Pakistan's Hangor class.
Why does it matter to MTU though? They're not a shipbuilder. MTU would enjoy the sale regardless whether it was for China or Thailand.

In fact, if MTU were to restrict Chinese export of German engines, they would've lost market share since China is buying them precisely for that, engines that they wouldn't have bought if it was domestic only.

Thailand's certainly not gonna buy engines for subs they don't have.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Why does it matter to MTU though? They're not a shipbuilder. MTU would enjoy the sale regardless whether it was for China or Thailand.

In fact, if MTU were to restrict Chinese export of German engines, they would've lost market share since China is buying them precisely for that, engines that they wouldn't have bought if it was domestic only.

Thailand's certainly not gonna buy engines for subs they don't have.

These might be old subs, subs that actually use real MTU engines and predate the domestic subs with indigenous engines.
 

Helius

Junior Member
Registered Member
These might be old subs, subs that actually use real MTU engines and predate the domestic subs with indigenous engines.
I think China is offering to lend two used subs for training so as to tide over the lull in construction of the actual ones (which would also have MTU engines) destined for the Thai Navy, as the article claimed?

Still, I don't see how that affects MTU either way. Either they restrict China exporting her old subs, or they refuse to sell engines to China so she can't build new ones to sell to Thailand, either way MTU makes no money from the Chinese or the Thai.

Or maybe MTU is hoping the Thai Navy would forgo the Yuans altogether and opt for the 214s instead?
 
Last edited:

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think China is offering to lend two used subs for training so as to tide over the lull in construction of the actual ones (which would also have MTU engines) destined for the Thai Navy, as the article claimed?

Still, I don't see how that affects MTU either way. Either they restrict China exporting her old subs, or they refuse to sell engines to China so she can't build new ones to sell to Thailand, either way MTU makes no money from the Chinese or the Thai.

Or maybe MTU is hoping the Thai Navy would forgo the Yuans altogether and opt for the 214s instead?

New ones, starting with the Yuans and even some of the later Songs, might be using a domestic engine. Even if it is similar or copied from MTU, its not MTU and would likely have indigenous parts.

But predating the shift from foreign to local diesels, some of the earlier subs may still have bonafide MTUs.

Its not the question who owns the engines, its whether where will you get the parts and maintenance from? Who will be responsible for the maintenance?
 

Helius

Junior Member
Registered Member
New ones, starting with the Yuans and even some of the later Songs, might be using a domestic engine. Even if it is similar or copied from MTU, its not MTU and would likely have indigenous parts.

But predating the shift from foreign to local diesels, some of the earlier subs may still have bonafide MTUs.

Its not the question who owns the engines, its whether where will you get the parts and maintenance from? Who will be responsible for the maintenance?

The point, at least based on what it says in the article is that China is building new Yuans i.e. 093A/S26T with MTU engines for the Thai instead of Chinese engines:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

To reiterate, the situation now becomes one where China is offering a couple of existing Yuans, presumably already sporting German engines, to the Thai Navy for training purposes due to delays with the new bespoke Yuans, also with German engines, that the Thai actually ordered.

As far as MTU is concerned, if they're adamant about China not exporting their engines, then it doesn't matter who owns or maintains them like you said, since MTU would get no custom from either China or Thailand anyway, hence no market share which is the whole point of this debate.

Conversely, if market share is what MTU cares about, then it makes no difference who buys from them and what they do with the engines since they're not competing with anyone anyway. China, as a proxy for the Thai Navy, is pretty much the only realistic customer for MTU in this deal because what's the point of Thailand purchasing directly from MTU if they don't have the submarines to install the engines to?
 

Top