Chinese Engine Development

latenlazy

Colonel
It depends on the specifics. For example,

设计技术= design technology. It shouldn't be confused with 设计(与)技术= design and technology. in anyway whatsoever.
冷却叶片= cool the blade(s). It shouldn't be confused with 冷却(了的)叶片= cooled blade(s). in anyway whatsoever.
I know. I’m pointing out that we lack the specifics in this sentence, so we don’t have any means of distinguishing which read of the sentence is more accurate.


Just because we have to deal with improperly written Chinese, doesn't mean that it is acceptable. Phrases canbe written better to avoid confusion. And no, we shouldn't try to use improperly written Chinese as an excuse to twist the meaning to one's liking.
I didn’t write the sentence, just trying to help interpret it. And no one’s twisting any meaning. The sentence could be validly be read multiple ways.​


冷却(的)叶片 is even more ambiguous. Rather be 冷却叶片= cool the blade(s) or 冷却(了的)叶片= cooled blade(s).
When there are no grammar particles in Chinese it’s not always more correct to assume the interpretation with the least additional particle additions.

And as I mentioned above, 技术设计 shouldn't be confused with 技术(和)设计, in anyway whatsoever, unless you can't tell the difference of "technological design" and "technology and design". Connecting words that may change the meaning shouldn't be assumed as omitted and let the reader interpret by excessive guessing.
When there are no specific grammar particles in Chinese everything comes down to interpreting silent relations between subject object and verb. I’m not confusing the two terms. I’m saying in the context of the sentence we’re discussing it could validly be read as *either* of those two terms.
 

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
Probably WS-20? If it's CFM56-ish (BPR 4-6) as rumoured it's what I'd nowadays describe as a medium bypass ratio engine - high bypass these days is >8 really (CJ-1000A, for example). With a two-stage HPT it's almost certainly not going to be the WS-15, which will probably adopt a single-stage HPT for weight and inertia reasons.

EDIT: actually, the two-stage HPT excludes the WS-20 too, doesn't it? The WS-10 core has a single-stage HPT as well. Hmm...
Yes concept changes over time. However this naming is subjective and depends on who is saying. A publication 世界航空发动机手册 (World Aeroengine Handbook) by Lin Zuoming in 2012 made any engine BPR above 4 as high. The Chinese does categorize WS-20 as a high bypass based on their cut-off ratio.
P.S. WS-20 is a derivative of WS-10 core, but that does not restrict the designers adding one more HPT to WS-20.
I suspect this medium bypass engine is for the big bomber, or could be replacing the current DK30 or WS18 on H-6. Rumour has that it is another derivative of WS-10 core.
 
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taxiya

Major
Registered Member
"大推力 中等涵道比 双级 高压涡轮冷却叶片 设计技术研究"

Research of design technology on high thrust, medium bypass ratio, dual stage, high-pressure intercooled turbine blade.
How do you translate 冷却 to intercooled? 冷却 is cooling/cooled. There is no "Inter" in the word.
 

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
To sum up the confusion, in my way of speaking Chinese:
冷却叶片: cooling blade emphasize the object "blade" while "cooling" is the adjective describing the purpose of the blade. This usage in Chinese sounds like a specially designed blade that serving the purpose of cooling itself or others. It could be further interpreted as a special design of engine that is not conventional turbofan as suggested by some here that the intake air is cooled.
叶片冷却: blade cooling emphasize the action "cooling" while "blade" is the adjective describing the recipient of the action. This usage would be the common subject in conventional turbofan design.

Now we don't know whether the guy who wrote the title of the research is
  1. Deficient in Chinese literacy so he wrote something he does not intend to imply
  2. Or, he is actually accurate in describing his research.
For the moment, I intend to believe the first.

P.S. Engineering major in China stops literacy education after graduation of high-school. They may but usually does not take any education in writing complicated articles in proper Chinese. There is such courses offered in universities "技术写作" (Technological writing) offered to Master degree but not to Bachelor, even so most Master students are too busy to pass the tech courses or GRE/TOEFL.
 

latenlazy

Colonel
To sum up the confusion, in my way of speaking Chinese:
冷却叶片: cooling blade emphasize the object "blade" while "cooling" is the adjective describing the purpose of the blade. This usage in Chinese sounds like a specially designed blade that serving the purpose of cooling itself or others. It would be further interpreted as a special design of engine that is not conventional turbofan as suggested by some here that the intake air is cooled.
叶片冷却: blade cooling emphasize the action "cooling" while "blade" is the adjective describing the recipient of the action. This usage would be the common subject in conventional turbofan design.

Now we don't know whether the guy who wrote the title of the research is
  1. Deficient in Chinese literacy so he wrote something he does not intend to imply
  2. Or, he is actually accurate in describing his research.
For the moment, I intend to believe the first.

P.S. Engineering major in China stops literacy education after graduation of high-school. They may but usually does not take any education in writing complicated articles in proper Chinese. There is such courses offered in universities "技术写作" (Technological writing), but most students are too busy to pass the tech courses or GRE/TOEFL.
Yes, exactly. We also need to factor in two other things. First, in China (especially the Mainland, less so in HK and TW) industrial, scientific, and engineering terminology are often shorthanded without specific grammatical relations because it’s just more efficient when you have very long specific technical terms and most everyone who works within a discipline already know the inherent relationships between all the sub-terms. Those relationships can be presumed because they are already predetermined by the actual physical mechanics and properties inherently represented in those terms* (I know this firsthand, my dad’s an engineer, most of our family friends are too, and I work with a lot of Chinese engineers in my current day job).

Second, there is a lot of regional variation in modifier noun order in Chinese, which is further complicated by both extensive and typical adverbing and nouning of verbs. In fact a lot of our disagreements about how to read this particular sentence really comes down to whether we’re treating 冷却 as a verb or adjective. In a strict formal sense 冷却 is supposed to be a verb, *but* like *all* verbs in Chinese it can be used as a modifier to a noun, and in fact the very structure of the sentence is conducive to this reading.

*Addendum, this same logic actually isn’t too different from how Classical Chinese works.
 
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Tirdent

Junior Member
Registered Member
P.S. WS-20 is a derivative of WS-10 core, but that does not restrict the designers adding one more HPT to WS-20.
I suspect this medium bypass engine is for the big bomber, or could be replacing the current DK30 or WS18 on H-6. Rumour has that it is another derivative of WS-10 core.
I suppose it's theoretically possible, but the scale of changes required means it's rarely if ever done. I can't think of a single example off the top of my head - not even the CFM56-5C (long-range A340, where the higher efficiency of a two-stage HPT would've helped).
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
This is industrial gas turbine but the first stage blade technology is more or less the same via Adam Wang

China achieved its first self-casting of large-scale first-class stator blades of heavy-duty gas turbines of 300 MW class

2018-12-26 08:30:02 Source: Technology Daily
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According to the Science and Technology Daily reported on December 26, China's first self-contained 300 MW class F heavy-duty gas turbine turbine first-stage vane castings passed the appraisal on the 25th. This is the first important breakthrough made by China in the core components of the heavy-duty gas turbine hot end, and it is also the most important milestone achievement of the national science and technology major project “Aero Engine and Gas Turbine”.

According to the State Power Investment Group Co., Ltd. (hereinafter referred to as the National Power Investment), the gas turbine, which is known as the “crown pearl of the equipment manufacturing industry”, has a history of 50 years in China, but before that China only had heavy-duty parts for heavy-duty gas turbines. Manufacturing and assembly capacity, has not yet mastered the core technology of hot-end component design and manufacturing, and has no independent research and development capabilities. Turbine first stage vane is a typical hot end part of heavy-duty gas turbines, and its core manufacturing technology has been absolutely blocked abroad.




300MW heavy-duty gas turbine technology verification machine CGT-60F gas turbine full three-dimensional composite tilting turbine first-stage static leaf (text irrelevant) Image from Tsinghua Holdings

Thirteen experts from the "two machines" special expert advisory committee, three major powers, Beijing University of Science and Technology, SINOMACH, and Fushun Special Steel agreed that the China National Electric Power Investment Co., Ltd. will jointly re-ignite the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the Institute of Metals of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, and Jiangsu Yongsheng. The research has not only delivered a set of qualified quality blades, but also delivered a set of curing process system and quality assurance system, laying a good foundation for turbine blade shaping design, and creating a number of records: the first domestically designed heavy-duty gas turbine large size First-class static leaf; the first domestic first-stage static leaf mother alloy with complete independent intellectual property rights, which has overcome the pure smelting technology; the first domestic self-casting heavy-duty gas turbine large-size first-class vane, which has overcome the precision of large-sized complex blades. Casting technology.



Expert Advisory Committee Picture from National Power Investment

It is reported that the "two-machine" special project was officially launched in 2015, which is the latest in the national science and technology major project; in 2016, it was listed as the first of the 100 major projects by the national "13th Five-Year Plan". China's joint re-ignition is the main body of the "two-machine" special medium and heavy-duty gas turbines.

Background information

At present, only a few countries in the world, such as the United States, Britain, Russia, Germany, France and Japan, have the ability to independently develop advanced gas turbines. These countries have developed gas turbines of different power grades ranging from tens of kilowatts to hundreds of thousands of kilowatts by means of technological advantages and comprehensive national strength, and they are widely used in the military and civilian fields. The gas turbine is mainly developed and applied by the development path of “light gas turbine developed by mature aviation engine and developed by heavy-duty gas turbine transplanted aero engine technology”.

Gas turbines belong to the fields of technology, capital and talents, and are strategic industries with long development cycle and long life cycle. For a long time, the developed countries in the world have always invested in gas turbines as a strategic industry, investing heavily in the development and development of new gas turbine products and technologies, improving and improving the performance of gas turbines, and greatly promoting the development of the gas turbine industry. In order to maintain their gas turbine technology advantages and always lead in the market competition, western developed countries have formulated special development plans for gas turbines, such as the US ATS plan (Advanced Turbine System Plan) and the CAGT Plan (Joint Cycle Gas Turbine Plan). EC's EC-ATS plan, Japan's "new daylight" plan and "coal gasification combined cycle power system". The implementation of these plans has greatly promoted the research and application of advanced technologies for gas turbines, and has reserved technology for the development of new gas turbines, which has played a decisive role in maintaining the world's leading position and advantages.

In the field of heavy-duty gas turbines, from 2001 to 2007, China introduced more than 50 sets of F/E-class heavy-duty gas turbines of GE, MHI and Siemens with a total of 20 million kilowatts in three ways of “bundling and bidding, market-changing technology”. The four joint productions of -GE, Dongqi-MHI, SAIC-Siemens and Nanqi-GE are domestically produced. The current localization rate is nearly 70%. The foreign party insists on not transferring any design technology and hot-end parts manufacturing and control of gas turbines. System technology makes it less likely to transfer any technology of advanced (G/H) gas turbines. In the industrial chain of heavy-duty gas turbines, our manufacturing process lacks independent research and development capabilities. (Source: Civil Aviation Website)
 

DGBJCLAU

New Member
Registered Member
Very thorough piece. Did you or anyone else do the wonderful translation?

This is industrial gas turbine but the first stage blade technology is more or less the same via Adam Wang

China achieved its first self-casting of large-scale first-class stator blades of heavy-duty gas turbines of 300 MW class

2018-12-26 08:30:02 Source: Technology Daily
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


According to the Science and Technology Daily reported on December 26, China's first self-contained 300 MW class F heavy-duty gas turbine turbine first-stage vane castings passed the appraisal on the 25th. This is the first important breakthrough made by China in the core components of the heavy-duty gas turbine hot end, and it is also the most important milestone achievement of the national science and technology major project “Aero Engine and Gas Turbine”.

According to the State Power Investment Group Co., Ltd. (hereinafter referred to as the National Power Investment), the gas turbine, which is known as the “crown pearl of the equipment manufacturing industry”, has a history of 50 years in China, but before that China only had heavy-duty parts for heavy-duty gas turbines. Manufacturing and assembly capacity, has not yet mastered the core technology of hot-end component design and manufacturing, and has no independent research and development capabilities. Turbine first stage vane is a typical hot end part of heavy-duty gas turbines, and its core manufacturing technology has been absolutely blocked abroad.




300MW heavy-duty gas turbine technology verification machine CGT-60F gas turbine full three-dimensional composite tilting turbine first-stage static leaf (text irrelevant) Image from Tsinghua Holdings

Thirteen experts from the "two machines" special expert advisory committee, three major powers, Beijing University of Science and Technology, SINOMACH, and Fushun Special Steel agreed that the China National Electric Power Investment Co., Ltd. will jointly re-ignite the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the Institute of Metals of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, and Jiangsu Yongsheng. The research has not only delivered a set of qualified quality blades, but also delivered a set of curing process system and quality assurance system, laying a good foundation for turbine blade shaping design, and creating a number of records: the first domestically designed heavy-duty gas turbine large size First-class static leaf; the first domestic first-stage static leaf mother alloy with complete independent intellectual property rights, which has overcome the pure smelting technology; the first domestic self-casting heavy-duty gas turbine large-size first-class vane, which has overcome the precision of large-sized complex blades. Casting technology.



Expert Advisory Committee Picture from National Power Investment

It is reported that the "two-machine" special project was officially launched in 2015, which is the latest in the national science and technology major project; in 2016, it was listed as the first of the 100 major projects by the national "13th Five-Year Plan". China's joint re-ignition is the main body of the "two-machine" special medium and heavy-duty gas turbines.

Background information

At present, only a few countries in the world, such as the United States, Britain, Russia, Germany, France and Japan, have the ability to independently develop advanced gas turbines. These countries have developed gas turbines of different power grades ranging from tens of kilowatts to hundreds of thousands of kilowatts by means of technological advantages and comprehensive national strength, and they are widely used in the military and civilian fields. The gas turbine is mainly developed and applied by the development path of “light gas turbine developed by mature aviation engine and developed by heavy-duty gas turbine transplanted aero engine technology”.

Gas turbines belong to the fields of technology, capital and talents, and are strategic industries with long development cycle and long life cycle. For a long time, the developed countries in the world have always invested in gas turbines as a strategic industry, investing heavily in the development and development of new gas turbine products and technologies, improving and improving the performance of gas turbines, and greatly promoting the development of the gas turbine industry. In order to maintain their gas turbine technology advantages and always lead in the market competition, western developed countries have formulated special development plans for gas turbines, such as the US ATS plan (Advanced Turbine System Plan) and the CAGT Plan (Joint Cycle Gas Turbine Plan). EC's EC-ATS plan, Japan's "new daylight" plan and "coal gasification combined cycle power system". The implementation of these plans has greatly promoted the research and application of advanced technologies for gas turbines, and has reserved technology for the development of new gas turbines, which has played a decisive role in maintaining the world's leading position and advantages.

In the field of heavy-duty gas turbines, from 2001 to 2007, China introduced more than 50 sets of F/E-class heavy-duty gas turbines of GE, MHI and Siemens with a total of 20 million kilowatts in three ways of “bundling and bidding, market-changing technology”. The four joint productions of -GE, Dongqi-MHI, SAIC-Siemens and Nanqi-GE are domestically produced. The current localization rate is nearly 70%. The foreign party insists on not transferring any design technology and hot-end parts manufacturing and control of gas turbines. System technology makes it less likely to transfer any technology of advanced (G/H) gas turbines. In the industrial chain of heavy-duty gas turbines, our manufacturing process lacks independent research and development capabilities. (Source: Civil Aviation Website)
 

by78

Brigadier
According to
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...
China developing TBCC engine
Andrew Tate, London - Jane's Defence Weekly
08 January 2019
A turbine-based combined cycle (TBCC) engine designed by China's Chengdu Aircraft Research and Design Institute and intended for use in hypersonic vehicles has completed its development phase, the Chinese state-owned Global Times newspaper reported on 7 January.

Citing information published by the institute on social media, the project will now move to the phase of integrating the engine with an airframe.

The concept underlying the TBCC engine is to combine a turbine engine with a ramjet-scramjet to exploit the differing characteristics of these engines and achieve aircraft-like operations, specifically horizontal take-off to flight. The design of most hypersonic vehicles requires either an aircraft or a rocket for initial acceleration before achieving hypersonic speeds, which are in excess of Mach 5.

And from
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China successfully completed hypersonic engine test
China's home-grown turbine-based combined cycle (TBCC) engine system has completed its design and development stage and entered the aircraft-engine integration test phase, a major step toward the development of the country's next generation hypersonic drone.

An article published by the WeChat account of Chengdu Aircraft Research and Design Institute, a design facility of the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Co, on Thursday said the TBCC engine flight test project is led by the institute's chief architect Wang Haifeng, who also led key national defense projects, such as the development of the J-20 and J-10 fighter jets.

The TBCC engine combines a turbine and a scramjet engine, which offers an ideal single-engine solution to achieving the shift from low speed to hypersonic speed, said Liu Xingzhou, a prominent ramjet expert and Chinese Academy of Engineering academician at the China Aerospace Science and Industry Cooperation, in 2011.

The TBCC engine will allow the aircraft to fly at speeds of up to Mach 6, which means five to six times faster than the speed of sound, said Wei Xudong, a Beijing-based military analyst.

The TBCC engine, which is bigger and more expensive than traditional ones, is primarily used in hypersonic cruise missiles and unmanned aircraft, including supersized reconnaissance drones and pilotless bombers, since no human could stand long periods of hypersonic flights, Wei told the Global Times on Monday.

Wei also stressed that once the TBCC engine technology matures, missiles outfitted with it will be impossible to intercept.

For years, US arms giant Lockheed Martin has been working on the development of the SR-72 using the TBCC propulsion system. The SR-72's top speed will be Mach 6. Its first flight is expected in 2023, and scheduled to enter service by 2030, US defense website airforce-technology.com reported.

The SR-72 is the successor of the fastest aircraft the world has seen, the SR-71, a Cold War reconnaissance jet that the US Air Force retired in 1998.

As Chinese firms rapidly develop their own TBCC engine, a Chinese version of the SR-72 will not be far off, Wei predicted.
 
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