Chinese Engine Development

Engineer

Major
Why to You still question this deal??? It has been confirmed by the Chinese MoD, so even if some might don't like it or understand the reasons behind, that deal is done.
The MoD gave a stock response, not that a contract has been signed. The whole point was to neither give a "yes" or a "no" answer. Of course, die-hard Su-35 fan boys would tell you the deal has been confirmed, but that's what they say every single time.

The actual deals that are going on never made the news.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Why to You still question this deal??? It has been confirmed by the Chinese MoD, so even if some might don't like it or understand the reasons behind, that deal is done.
I think the doubt of the deal is due to the original MoD statement did neither confirm nor reject a contract has been signed.
Here is my translation from Xinhua
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记者:俄罗斯媒体报道,俄官方部门表示中国和俄罗斯签署了购买24架苏-35飞机的合同,金额高达20亿美元。请予以证实。

Journalist: According to Russian media, Russian government agency has stated that China and Russia has signed a contract of sales of 24 Su-35, worth 2 billion USD. Please confirm.

吴谦:苏-35飞机合作项目,是中俄双方均有意愿积极开展的一个合作领域,通过双方的共同努力,已经取得阶段性成果。双方将继续按照平等互利的原则,发展军技领域的合作。

Wu Qian (MoD spokesman): The Su-35 project, is a cooperation that both sides are willing to be actively engaged. Through joint effort, it has reached a stage result. Both sides will continue cooperation in military area according to the principle of equal and mutual benefitting.

The tricky phrase which is very ambiguous subjecting to all kinds of interpretation is 阶段性成果. It can be as less significant as “some result of a stage" to as serious as “milestone, accomplishment”. But even the later can mean something of ongoing negotiation or a contract. So just from the wording, a contract is far from confirmed.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
The MoD gave a stock response, not that a contract has been signed. The whole point was to neither give a "yes" or a "no" answer. Of course, die-hard Su-35 fan boys would tell you the deal has been confirmed, but that's what they say every single time.

The actual deals that are going on never made the news.
outside of B787, there is no su-35 fanboys here. This forum is one of the most anti su-35 deal forums out there. I think those of us who believe the deal will happen are persuaded by evidence, not by our love of su-35.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
China reorganized and consolidated all its jet engine divisions into a single entity tackling both military and civilian engines.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
your credibility will be shot as the SU35 will be delivered 4th quarter of this yr.
To be fair, Engineer's words that you quoted, as I understood was that "there is no (Chinese) news confirming the actual deal". On that account, he/she(sorry, I don't know the gender) is right, and his/her credibility is not affected.

We hear news about an ongoing negotiation, we hear news from Russian officials "confirming" the deal was signed, but we haven't heard the confirmation from the Chinese officials. One can interprets the MoD's vague words as Chinese confirmation, but that is only interpretation, different from official confirmation. It is alright for you to interpret that way, but it is only your thought. The deal is between two sides, so only official confirmations from both sides count. Denying this (both Chinese and Russian official confirmations) is reducing one's credibility. But rejecting one side "confirmation" is well within skepticism, isn't it?

This Su-35 thing is OT for this thread, but I feel I must say that all of us should be fair to different thoughts and not to question other's credibility based on one's own belief. So, shall we drop this and get bac on topic?
 

Quickie

Colonel
I bumped into this while looking for certain information that was being commented on in the ongoing engine discussion on the other thread. The spokesperson provided some information on the WS-10 and corrected a misconception on the engine lifespan.

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Interview with Mr. Dong, a exhibitor of China aviation research 606 institute on production of WS-10 engine :

Taihang engine really capable? Standing next to Taihang turbojet engine WS-10 Mr. Dong said that WS-10 engine is now fully operational and matured.

WS-10 engine is Chinese Aviation Research Institute 606's product, Mr.Dong is exhibitor of China aviation research 606 institute, these days every day he stood in the hall, elaborate WS-10 engine story to professional and non professional visitors. Mr.Dong said, he graduated from Nanjing University majoring in Aeronautics & Astronautics and started to participate in the development of WS-10 engine since his graduation.

WS10 pre-study started from year 1978, project set up in year 1987. Mr.Dong said, WS10 had been massively mounted on the J-10 B and J-11B fighters.

Online some articles reveal, Taihang engine outer culvert box, using the composite, which greatly reduce the weight, also improves the strength and the ability of resistance to high temperature. Mr. Dong with a reporter standing besides Taihang engine, pointing to the black pitch appearance of the engine that said: ‘this is our unique characteristics,previously used here is steel or titanium alloy. Now with this newly developed composite material, which is much lighter/higher temperature resistance/higher strength’.

Mr.Dong said WS-10 thrust to weight ratio at about 8 (the ratio of thrust to weight refers to the Trust power per unitary weight). The fourth generation engines, are all around 8 TW ratio. He also revealed, several China aviation research institutes now are jointly developing the 5th generation fighter turbojet engine with TW ratio 10. The Chinese military fans called it the WS-15 峨眉 ,which figures stealthy layout.

The J-10B as a lightweight fighter capable of carrying nearly 8 tons of weapons and excellent mobility performance, all credit to having a strong China 'heart' of WS-10 series.

Following is the Dialogue details about WS-10 indigenous engine with Mr.Dong:

Sino US engine gap less than 10 years

Reporter: 120kn-140kn what is the meaning?

Mr. Dong: Taihang developed many kinds of DERIVATIVES, the newest WS-10 series engine has reached 140 KN thrust. (Su-35 engine thrust of 145 KN)

Reporter: Achieve this thrust, that is to say the Taihang engine and Su-35's 117s engine thrust being roughly equivalent?

Mr. Dong: Yes, and we are still moving forward, the past few years has been to improve and develop. This is the new WS-10 engine, which have shaped up.

Reporter: It has started MASS production?

Mr. Dong: Mass service on the J-10B, J 11B.

Reporter: why the J-10, such as PLAAF eight one aerobatic team still with Russian engines?

Mr.Dong: China had bought so many Russian engine, We still utilize those engine until the life span expired.

Reporter: Can you please shed some light on the life span of WS10 compared with Russian and United States fourth generation engine?

Mr. Dong: We are slightly inferior in that part,while we have a larger room for progress. Such as some of the material shows good performance data in scientific research test, but in practical application, is still not satisfactory. It is the difficult part of aero engine development, It takes decades to improve its stability and even so with USA, not including the conceptual phase of the engine.

Reporter: Online question said that WS10 ENGINE has less than 300 hours life hours, whether this is true?

Mr.Dong: This is wrong, WS10's life is over 1500 hours, completely in accordance with the design requirements. 300 hours is the span between each regular maintenance .

Reporter: Our engine gap with the US is there for 10 years?

Mr.Dong: Less than 10 years.



The engine problem had been solved, WS-10 is matured :

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CCTV's document about the WS-10 engine, and it has confirmed that the WS-10 engine has passed 1000 hours or over 40 days of non-stop ground test back in 2005.


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