Chinese Economics Thread

bajingan

Senior Member
Recently Aussie politicians and media have suggested that 5eyes be referred to as 4eyes because NZ is not seen to be " singing from the same songsheet"
Recently scomo has landed himself in hot water due to sexual harrassment allegations of Liberals staffer Brittany Higgins that had been raped by a male colleague in the office of Defence Minister Linda
Reynolds, scomo has been accused of cover up this incident
This scandal came out of nowhere suddenly, my conspiracy theory mind thinking, there could be disgruntled business lobbies in canberra who had enough of scomo destroying trade relationship with China and decided to try to bring him down, regime change so to speak
What better way to do it than the tried and tested strategy of "sexual harrasments misconduct"
 
D

Deleted member 15887

Guest
The idea of China's real growth being 2-3% came about a few years ago. It's based on Li Keqiang's index of using electricity/coal consumption, steel production, and rail volume as a measurement of economic health. A few China observers took this index to imply the overall economic growth was around 3%. As we all know China made a big shift towards tertiary sectors and high tech that consumes less physical resources for each GDP dollar produced.

Using this index as a measure of GDP growth reflects an outdated view of China's economic structure.
1616629839319.png

By this standard, I say China's "real" GDP growth rate is actually near 10%!!!

See what I can do with figures
 

Jiang ZeminFanboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
^^
Lol, where did you find this graph? I've been looking for it for the last 30 min and find 0. I've seen it once before, so I wanted to answer to post.

The idea of China's real growth being 2-3% came about a few years ago. It's based on Li Keqiang's index of using electricity/coal consumption, steel production, and rail volume as a measurement of economic health. A few China observers took this index to imply the overall economic growth was around 3%. As we all know China made a big shift towards tertiary sectors and high tech that consumes less physical resources for each GDP dollar produced.

Using this index as a measure of GDP growth reflects an outdated view of China's economic structure.
Actually, it was years before, about 2015, when Li Keqiang Index was lower than the official GDP, now it's higher like on the graph above my post.

But I want to clarify, Pettis assumption here is that Chinese GDP "real" growth will be 2-3% for years to come when China stops pumping GDP with debt. (deleveraging total debt, also unofficial debt).

He is a little right that in the case of the complete stop with total debt rising, China's GDP growth must fall, but I believe it won't be like he forecasts. For now, I see China wants to stabilize the debt to GDP %, after 2020 shot in total debt.

Pettis believes that the transition to a more consumer-based economy will take a very long time, and if we look at how the official Chinese GDP composition looks like we would also say that it would take a long time. BUT. China retail sales are the same as the USA, so we ask ourselves why the Chinese consumer economy is so much lower than America?

*Firstly, USA adds a lot of things to GDP that China does not
*Secondly, USA lawyers and health industry is huge and too expensive pumping GDP.
*Thirdly, China has a huuuge gray area, mainly where? Yes, in-services, consumer-based economy! So, the Chinese consumer market is there, it's higher than in official stats. It won't take decades to transition it to consumption as Pettis suggest, it will take time, of course, it's not yet the same as the USA, but it's not as low as what it looks like in nominal official GDP. It's growing fast (excl. last year).
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
So China has debt. And the US does not?

It is to say the least amusing that they think COVID-19 has impacted the Chinese economy when it is quite clear the US was much harder hit by it. China contained the pandemic last year and the US still hasn't contained it by a long shot.

One part of the Li index is electricity consumption. Well China has almost twice the electrical consumption of the US. While China is still below the US in electricity consumption per capita it is actually ahead of several countries including the UK. Just let that sink in. China already has more electricity consumption per capita than the UK.

China is spending massively in infrastructure including mass transportation. This includes high speed rail, regular rail, and metro systems. It is well known that improved transportation leads to better upwards social mobility, increased average salaries, and increased economic growth.
 

NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
So China has debt. And the US does not?

It is to say the least amusing that they think COVID-19 has impacted the Chinese economy when it is quite clear the US was much harder hit by it. China contained the pandemic last year and the US still hasn't contained it by a long shot.

One part of the Li index is electricity consumption. Well China has almost twice the electrical consumption of the US. While China is still below the US in electricity consumption per capita it is actually ahead of several countries including the UK. Just let that sink in. China already has more electricity consumption per capita than the UK.

China is spending massively in infrastructure including mass transportation. This includes high speed rail, regular rail, and metro systems. It is well known that improved transportation leads to better upwards social mobility, increased average salaries, and increased economic growth.
Same old Pettis guy. That guy is a bobblehead. Really how is he still economics professor at Peking University?
 

Kaeshmiri

Junior Member
Registered Member
Why list in the NYSE?

Why not list in HK or Shanghai and give the capital markets of China the business rather than the greedy white anglos?
Maybe they've evaluated that there's more demand for their IPO amongst American investors and hence they want to cater to them. American investors get turned away from HK/Shanghai as they would've have to follow different regulations and paperwork.
 
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