Chinese Economics Thread

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
If a country is really determined "to poke China in the eye" they will likely do it no matter what China say or do. China has made SK lotte exit china market after THAAD issue, that did not prevent Australia to ban Huawei. It is not "bad" to do import ban, but do not think that this will absolutely deter other countries.

Also, if a country is really determined "not to poke China in the eye" they will not do it no matter what US say or want.

So your philosophy in life is if someone punch you in your left cheek, you'll turn around and let him punch you on the other cheek? Somehow I doubt you are that type of person.

US make sure all countries and rulers know there will be costs, even death sentence for defying her wishes. China simply wants the poking to stop, is that too much to ask for? Aussie is free to continue the poking, but they will have to bear the consequencies. Other countries will think twice before poking China.
 
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SS:

This article discusses the difficult challenge India will have in attracting manufacturing from China, despite public perceptions. It notes how while back in April and May, news of 1000 US allegedly leaving China for India amid the pandemic was paraded throughout much of India, that hype has not lived to expectations, with very little manufacturing actually migrating to India, with a multitude of challenges weighing down on India.

The author discusses problems with Modi's 3 D's claim- that democracy, demography, and demand would bring foreign MNCs to manufacture in India, noting that:

  1. Not much manufacturing actually left China in the first place, contrary to strategist expectations
  2. To the extent any manufacturing did leave China, it primarily did not go to India
  3. A multitude of certain non-economic and governance-related factors, whether from cumbersome regulations, red tape, drawn-out permit approvals process, land acquisition challenges, weak infrastructure, greater logistical costs, and political instability are huge problems India faces
  4. Economic challenges, like wild currency volatility, which deters foreign MNC's, and a weak domestic demand base that India also faces
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While anecdotes of companies setting up in India are often hyped up, they do not often live up to the hype. For example, take Foxconn, which manufactures for Apple, had
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that India would have 12 plants and 1 million Indian workers by this year, as well as a
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to create 50000 jobs in Maharashtra back in 2015. Both of these did not live up to their hype. In fact, Apple continues to
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on China over these past 5 years, adding 34 new supplier bases in China between just 2017 and 2019. While in India, Foxconn is now where even close to having 1 million workers in India, and
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their $5 billion plant they had promised the Maharastra gov't back in 2015 early this year. They came back with a far more paltry $1-billion investment to expand an existing plant and create 6000 jobs, which was hyped up by Indian media a few months ago with great fanfare (for context, Foxconn still employs somewhere around 1.3 million workers in China, despite spending a decade of trying to diversify away from it); we will have to see if even this investment promise lives up it hype. While Foxconn is no stranger to
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, this only is a microcosm of the
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India has had in attracting manufacturing.

India does have great untapped market and economic potential. Through more effective political and economic reforms, improved governance, and a dramatic upgrade of its infrastructure, India may have a shot at realistically competing with China economically. After all, India is really the only other place on earth that might have the potential to match China in terms of supply chain efficiency and economies of scale in manufacturing, given the country's demographics and potential capability to achieve scale. But until such changes are made, and I have not been encouraged at all by weak progress by Modi these past 6 years, India will remain just a story of "potential".
 

escobar

Brigadier
So your philosophy in life is if someone punch you in your left cheek, you'll turn around and let him punch you on the other cheek? Somehow I doubt you are that type of person.

US make sure all countries and rulers know there will be costs, even death sentence for defying her wishes. China simply wants the poking to stop, is that too much to ask for? Aussie is free to continue the poking, but they will have to bear the consequencies. Other countries will think twice before poking China.
China thinks import ban is the response to Australia ban, I'm Ok with that. Strategically it is better for China to trade less with Australia and more with friendly countries like Russia. But thinking China making example of Australia will deter other countries is a flawed logic.

All countries know there are costs, even death sentence for defying US but this does not prevent some countries from continuing to do so. And China is the one really defying US in all areas.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
China thinks import ban is the response to Australia ban, I'm Ok with that. Strategically it is better for China to trade less with Australia and more with friendly countries like Russia. But thinking China making example of Australia will deter other countries is a flawed logic.

All countries know there are costs, even death sentence for defying US but this does not prevent some countries from continuing to do so. And China is the one really defying US in all areas.

So what should China do then. Old wise one?
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
So what should China do then. Old wise one?
I'm old, but definitely not wise, therefore I am guilty! I confess! I confess! I rant.

Seems to me that China is quite transparent this time.

The transparency fooled all the haters in the west. Even threw off balance seasoned China watchers.

One Belt One Road.

Made In China 2025.

The dual circulation policy recently announced, that said it all.

I think there is another problem with understanding, and that is the understanding of capitalism.

The point is this, and that is people do not like capitalism, so they refuse to try to understand it.

One principle of capitalism is to keep growing, such as the corporation expanding ever into new markets. That is what is China is doing, BRI and MIC2025.

Europe and the United States on the other hand, those markets are saturated as far as the Chinese company is concerned. It is important, but they might not be the future. A saturated market is not really growing that much if it is at zero growth, which is the west today.

In short, the Chinese Communist Party, is playing the capitalist game far better than the decadent west, if we use the old time rhetoric, with the new geopolitical reality.

If you don't know China, this communism thing will confuse. If you don't know capitalism, then this BRI and MIC2025 will confuse.

China is just being straight up here telling it like it is. This is what China are going to do. Let's see what you will do about it, let's see if you got game.

So far, they don't got game, they got pandemic.

:confused: :cool:
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
China thinks import ban is the response to Australia ban, I'm Ok with that. Strategically it is better for China to trade less with Australia and more with friendly countries like Russia. But thinking China making example of Australia will deter other countries is a flawed logic.

All countries know there are costs, even death sentence for defying US but this does not prevent some countries from continuing to do so. And China is the one really defying US in all areas.

Countries defy the Hegemon's wishes because the cost of obeying is higher than the cost of disobeying. NK for example believe it needs to have nuclear weapons to ensure its survival.
China has been keeping her head down for too long (韬光养晦), thus making everyone think poking at China cost nothing. Actually the pokings bring benefits because the Hegemon will provide rewards. China's import ban simply changes that equation.

If that is too hard for you to understand, then we can stop this discussion now.
 

hashtagpls

Senior Member
Registered Member
China shouldn't just use the economics/sanctions route to discipline anglo nations like australia; there ought to be other pressure points to apply, such as using China's role in UN human rights groups to investigate Australia's treatment of aboriginals or offshore detention in Christmas Island or more recently, war crimes by Australian SAS against Afghans.
 

escobar

Brigadier
Countries defy the Hegemon's wishes because the cost of obeying is higher than the cost of disobeying. NK for example believe it needs to have nuclear weapons to ensure its survival.
China has been keeping her head down for too long (韬光养晦), thus making everyone think poking at China cost nothing. Actually the pokings bring benefits because the Hegemon will provide rewards. China's import ban simply changes that equation.

If that is too hard for you to understand, then we can stop this discussion now.
You just want a emotional response from China. All that matters to you is to taking revenge on Australia. You care more about that than about how to fully exploit this situation and advance China interests.

So yes we can stop the discussion.
 
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