Chinese Economics Thread

broadsword

Brigadier
If China can fix the quality of its products fast, 8-9% growth is a no-brainer. Now, many people have the once-bitten, twice-shy frame of mind when buying made-in-China. If any of you guys live in China, please feedback to the government.
 

delft

Brigadier
You do not go on imitating more developed countries until you have reached their level of technology. You look for opportunities to improve on them as soon as you can. China needs high speed railways. While building them there are opportunities to achieve economies of scale that are impossible to developed countries of the same size. Look at high speed rail in US. This will be true in many industries.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
If China can fix the quality of its products fast, 8-9% growth is a no-brainer. Now, many people have the once-bitten, twice-shy frame of mind when buying made-in-China. If any of you guys live in China, please feedback to the government.

Well China makes ALL KINDS of products, both high end and low end products for all kinds of spender. It's not just the West that China sold it's products to but in many region of the world. It's solar panels and windmill farms are exported to many countries of the world. And we haven't even touch the commercial services sector such as exporting engineering expertise, architecture, construction management, and IT networking services. Not to mention China is leading in the building materials of 3D printing of houses and buildings, so there is a lot of potential right there.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
You do not go on imitating more developed countries until you have reached their level of technology. You look for opportunities to improve on them as soon as you can. China needs high speed railways. While building them there are opportunities to achieve economies of scale that are impossible to developed countries of the same size. Look at high speed rail in US. This will be true in many industries.

Sadly the US doesn't have much of a high speed rails...yet. The fastest train in the US is the Amtrak Acela that goes from New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and Washington D.C. California is suppose to be working on a plan to have one.

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Doombreed

Junior Member
Well China makes ALL KINDS of products, both high end and low end products for all kinds of spender. It's not just the West that China sold it's products to but in many region of the world. It's solar panels and windmill farms are exported to many countries of the world. And we haven't even touch the commercial services sector such as exporting engineering expertise, architecture, construction management, and IT networking services. Not to mention China is leading in the building materials of 3D printing of houses and buildings, so there is a lot of potential right there.

What I find interesting, is that if you read all the anti-China, china threat opinions on the internet. The solution all depends on China having a crash, or unrest, or some sort of systemic failure. Oh the Chinese economy will crash, we'll be fine. There will be civil unrest then civil war, we'll be fine. Their aging population will end them, we'll be fine. You never hear any plan that tackles China, even if China continues on her growth projectory. There's never, we need to do this, so if China grows at 7-8% for the next X years, we will still retain our eminence.
 

counterprime

New Member
Registered Member
Ignore the technical jargon.

Basically, China has a ton of untapped potential. They simply have not fully optimized their productivity. Also, many of the investments are only now starting to pay off.

● There are lots of farmers who can be educated and/or work in manufacturing
● automation hasn't fully diffused
● many highly educated citizens are only now coming online so to speak (they've been stuck in school for 20+ years)
● their business networks are growing every year and will likely out compete foreign businesses in Asia thanks to logistical advantage.
● the brain drain has changed dramatically as more students abroad return home AND they drain foreign brains.
● the domestic economy will grow massively as more people urbanize and take up better paying jobs AND domestic businesses will pop up to supply the demand for stuff
● they have mastered several big industries and are exporting their wares (high speed rail, renewable energy, smartphones, military arms, industrial machines, rocket launches, nuclear power, computing, civic infrastructure), etc.
● They do have a problem with some product scandals but that will eventually become insignificant as the government clamps down and makes examples of them. They executed the guilty during the melamine scandal.

Having said that, China needs better branding, pr, and marketing. They lack big here.
 
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Doombreed

Junior Member
Having said that, China needs better branding, pr, and marketing. They lack big here.

The issue here is what people value. Chinese people value different things than others, and that show through in their marketing. I'll give you an example. You go to a Chinese restaurants for the food. The food is delicious and at a reasonable price. There's is so much preparation to the food. The entire emphasis is on the food itself. You don't go there for the ambiance. Then you look at at Japanese restaurant. The food is basic and easy to prepare. But the lighting is great, the service is nice and the ambiance is fantastic. Why? Because that's what the owners value and what the owner knows.

This shows through in China's diplomacy as well. The Chinese value hard power. Take the recent Hong Kong protest. Where is the counter propaganda? Where as the western world knows the power of soft power. The power of influence.

To be honest. I think the people that runs the CCP just don't get the western audience. They need to hire some western PR/Marketing firms. Or better yet, import some overseas Chinese youth talent back to run the PR department. People that grew up in the west. People that knows the nuisance of western culture.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
To be honest. I think the people that runs the CCP just don't get the western audience.

Do they know that foreign audience find their wholesale copying shameless? Do they need to copy right down to the smallest details? But you poor copies of foreign goods. Instead of copying the same quality, they make the products thinner and use lower quality plastics and they never seem to test for endurance. After one week of use, they break.:(

The shoes look good and cheap, but last only three months because the heels are hollow with a thin sheet of rubber. Garden shears that rust after three to four months so that they seize and becomes unusable. Selley's shears, though costing double, rust only slightly and I am still using it after more than ten years. So, actually the Chinese goods end up costing more.
 

xiabonan

Junior Member
Do they know that foreign audience find their wholesale copying shameless? Do they need to copy right down to the smallest details? But you poor copies of foreign goods. Instead of copying the same quality, they make the products thinner and use lower quality plastics and they never seem to test for endurance. After one week of use, they break.:(

The shoes look good and cheap, but last only three months because the heels are hollow with a thin sheet of rubber. Garden shears that rust after three to four months so that they seize and becomes unusable. Selley's shears, though costing double, rust only slightly and I am still using it after more than ten years. So, actually the Chinese goods end up costing more.

You need to understand something: it is not the producers decide what and how to produce, but rather the consumers.

In a free market--for consumer goods China's markets are largely free and experience very little government intervention. E.g. the government won't interfere with what phone, computer, car, or diapers you buy--these decisions are made by the consumers.

In any economy there's three and only three fundamental questions: WHAT to produce, FOR WHOM to produce, and HOW to produce. In a free market, the price mechanism solves all of these questions assuming everyone maximizes their own interests.

What to produce? Those goods that can make a profit. As demand increases, prices will increases if supply remains same, hence this signals to the producers that more people want this good, therefore they'll produce more of it.

For whom to produce? Those who can afford it. It's simple.

How to produce? Produce using the most efficient method. This simply means that producers will cut down costs and corners in order to maintain or wider their profit margin.

Now let's tie theory back to reality. You got to know that although many millions of Chinese has gotten rich or at least richer, many other millions are barely making their ends meet. Their priority in terms of purchasing a good is vastly different from that of Western consumers. If a good is good enough to at least fulfill its role relatively well, and if it is cheap, there's going to be a huge market (the poorer people) in China with a population more than the whole population of US to purchase it.

Let's put it this way. These firms who produce these goods are making profits producing such low-quality goods, and as long as there's a market for their goods and they can maintain this profit, they'll have little to none incentive to improve upon the quality of their goods. If they try to do so, they'll increase their costs of production significantly and without a high demand for the improved goods, they'll lose out to competition. Furthermore, such firms are usually small and competing in a monopolistic competitive market (many small firms), hence they do not have the means and resources to invest in R&D as well. On the other hand, if the demand shifts from low-quality goods to higher quality ones, they'll HAVE to improve otherwise they'll be wiped out of competition.

Hence, this explains why those industries exposed to a high degree of foreign competition improves the most in quality of their products.

Take the example of Personal Computers (PC). China's home-grown producers were faced with competition from international brands like HP and Dell from the start, and today Lenovo, China's home-grown brand, is the world's largest PC vendor and the quality of their computers are often praised even in the United States.

Another example will be Huawei. Due to the nature of the goods they produce, which is network gears, they don't face normal consumers but rather corporate or government clients. Thus price leverage becomes less of importance and quality and services are top priority. Today Huawei is the world's largest network gears producer, exporting gears to over a hundred countries/regions, including some of the highly regulated and highly quality-prioritized markets in Europe.
 
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