Chinese Economics Thread

SlothmanAllen

Senior Member
Registered Member
Does any developed nation have a growing population without immigration?

Open up immigration to diaspora. Conduct more assertive social engineering to promote having children, such as socially as well as financially elevating those that have families over those that remain single. Obviously have windows of time before imposing any penalties and taxes, and give leeway for people that may have medical issues.

This is likely the real solution. I don't think money will do much since as people get access to more wealth children become a hindrance from them being able to enjoy themselves.

EDIT: Also, you have to open up immigration period. The Chinese diaspora won't make a dent in Chinese population stability or growth.
 
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Michael90

Senior Member
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Collapse in births this year(2025), I am really astonished what has happened in 2025, every year I am thinking it won't come much lower but every year it is. I thought this year we will see 8.5m which is really low but we have only 7.92m, last year it was 9.54m. TFR most likely felt below 1.0. We're going South Korea and Taiwan province direction. Now no reason for restraints and conservatives policy. Huge subsidies are needed now no later to try to change anything in birth rate.

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No country who is developed and industrialized is not facing this issue. It’s very difficult to see how the CCP can change this, since this requires drastic measures that will impact the whole society and economy as well, so tough decisions. Plus Many others have tried and failed to achieve their desired results. You can’t force people to have kids if they don’t want to or if they regard their career to be more important and life too hectic and busy to be able to raise a family and the culture also sees children as a burden .

The only developed country in the world who has defied the odds is Israel and there’s a reason for that. Having being to Israel I found out that they are rather weird in the fact that even as a wealthy developed well educated country, child birth and children are looked up on as a good thing and family units are more celebrated than childless couples(who are frown upon by the society), so this creates a positive pressure for youths to have children. There is a cultural norm to have kids, as the culture celebrates and encourages parenthood at all levels. So this excellent paternal policies to encourage having kids means people have fewer barriers to having children.So it’s not abnormal to see a normal Jewish families having 3kids and the state encourages this by providing fertility treatments, over 14weeks maternity leave, jobs guarantee of 1year and Israeli women with difficulties conceiving get full state funding for IVF until they get 2 children. They get multiple tries. Plus you will be surprised that Israel has one of the most advanced medical systems in the world, their healthcare covers most of the pre birth checks ,to detect healthy babies and they lead the word in women’s health services. So all this also helps .

This are some of the things that I noticed there and which I always believed the CCP and other developed countries suffering from low birth rates should send their officials to Israel to learn from their example/success in defying this odds.

iI am actually surprised that even with the collapsing birth rates there is still a 3 children policy in China(instead of lifting it altogether).So if there are some Chinese peopleof course there must some people among the billion plus )who want to have more than 3 children they have to pay a fine officially. Shows how stupid their policies have been in this sector. lol. It’s crazy to see that China despite not yet being a fully developed country yet already has a lower birth rate than even western developed countries who have been developed and industrialized for over a century. It shouldn’t be this way, not at this stage of development anyway. So something went terribly wrong somewhere .
 
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Michael90

Senior Member
Registered Member
There are no Chinese speaking countries or minorities anywhere in the world with an above replacement TFR. Solving this is likely impossible.
Agree it’s difficult. But I’m not sure why it’s even more so for Chinese majority countries like Taiwan and China and Singapore
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
No country who is developed and industrialized is not facing this issue. I don’t think there’s much the CCP can do to be honest. May others have tried everything and failed miserably. You can’t force people to have kids if they don’t want to or if they regard their career to be more important and life too hectic and busy to be able to raise a family and the culture also sees children as a burden .
The only developed country in the world who has defied the odds is Israel and there’s a reason for that. Having being to Israel I found out that they are rather weird in the fact that even as a developed country child birth and children are looked up on as a good thing and family units are more celebrated than childless couples. There is a cultural norm to have kids, as the culture celebrates and encourages parenthood at all levels. So this excellent paternal policies to encourage having kids means people have fewer barriers to having children.
So it’s not abnormal to see a normal Jewish families have 3kids and the state encourages this by providing fertility treatments, over 14weeks maternity leave, jobs guarantee of 1year etc. Israeli women with difficulties conceiving get full state funding for IVF until they get 2 children. They get multiple tries. Plus you will be surprised that Israel has one of the most advanced medical systems in the world, their healthcare covers most of the pre birth checks ,to detect healthy babies and they lead the word in women’s health services. So all this also helps .

This is something the CCP(and other developed countries) should send their officials in Israel to learn. Since they have also failed miserably so far in improving birth rates after their disastrous stringent one child policy which lasted too long. Funny enough even with the collapsing birth rates there is still a 3 children policy(instead of lifting it altogether).So if there are some Chinese people who want to have more than 3 children they have to pay a fine officially. Shows how stupid their policies have been in this sector. lol. It’s crazy to see that China despite not yet being a fully developed country yet already has a lower birth rate than even western developed countries who have been developed and industrialized for over a century. It shouldn’t be this way, not at this stage of development anyway. So something went terribly wrong somewhere .
Israel is a religious state; in their minds, their goal is to populate the world with Jews. The upside to this is that they have a relatively high fertility rate; the downside is that religion is extremely and uselessly taxing on life. Israel also depends on the US for technology and defense so how advanced of a society is it? Despite this, we have discussed many times on this forum before, the Israeli population is divided into an extremely secular population and and not-so-secular population. The latter pulls all of the weight in GDP and technology; the former is completey subsidized by grants to simply study religion with no stress or pressure in life. The fertility rate of the secular population is extremely high but the not-so-secular population is much closer to what you would expect in a modern society where people live with the stress of making a living. So, basically, the useless people are taking over.

China is only a developing country because it is still developing. It is actually much more modern than basically every other country, so measuring where the fertility rate should be base on developing vs developed nation status is rather useless. Those countries are only developed countries because regardless of where they are, they're just not developing anymore. There is also no enacted penalty for having 3 of more kids anymore.
 

Wrought

Captain
Registered Member
Israel is a religious state; in their minds, their goal is to populate the world with Jews. The upside to this is that they have a relatively high fertility rate; the downside is that religion is extremely and uselessly taxing on life. Israel also depends on the US for technology and defense so how advanced of a society is it? Despite this, we have discussed many times on this forum before, the Israeli population is divided into an extremely secular population and and not-so-secular population. The latter pulls all of the weight in GDP and technology; the former is completey subsidized by grants to simply study religion with no stress or pressure in life. The fertility rate of the secular population is extremely high but the not-so-secular population is much closer to what you would expect in a modern society where people live with the stress of making a living. So, basically, the useless people are taking over.

China is only a developing country because it is still developing. It is actually much more modern than basically every other country, so measuring where the fertility rate should be base on developing vs developed nation status is rather useless. Those countries are only developed countries because regardless of where they are, they're just not developing anymore. There is also no enacted penalty for having 3 of more kids anymore.

You reversed "secular" and "not-so-secular." It's also worth noting the religious exemptions from mandatory military service, which has caused no end of problems for Israel. It is unironically far better to have no youth vs youth which contributes nothing to society but continues to extract subsidies from the state. Literal parasites.

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vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
The only developed country in the world who has defied the odds is Israel and there’s a reason for that. Having being to Israel I found out that they are rather weird in the fact that even as a wealthy developed well educated country, child birth and children are looked up on as a good thing and family units are more celebrated than childless couples(who are frown upon by the society), so this creates a positive pressure for youths to have children. There is a cultural norm to have kids, as the culture celebrates and encourages parenthood at all levels. So this excellent paternal policies to encourage having kids means people have fewer barriers to having children.So it’s not abnormal to see a normal Jewish families having 3kids and the state encourages this by providing fertility treatments, over 14weeks maternity leave, jobs guarantee of 1year and Israeli women with difficulties conceiving get full state funding for IVF until they get 2 children. They get multiple tries. Plus you will be surprised that Israel has one of the most advanced medical systems in the world, their healthcare covers most of the pre birth checks ,to detect healthy babies and they lead the word in women’s health services. So all this also helps .
Israel receives massive donations from Jewish diaspora, that is why they can afford to have kids.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
There are no Chinese speaking countries or minorities anywhere in the world with an above replacement TFR. Solving this is likely impossible.
If humankind managed to build particle accelerators, alter the surface of planet Earth to build so much, go to space, then solving TFR is not impossible at all.

Humans have crazy potential when they are really willing to accomplish something. Problem here is that TFR issues will manifest many decades into the future, so no politician or society as a whole, have the willingness to do something

This is one of the areas where CPC has to decisively step in and take action
 

drowingfish

Senior Member
Registered Member
well, looking at how hard it is for young people to compete with AI in the job market nowadays, is it really necessary to have that many people in the future? if there arent that many jobs available, the surplus population won't do you any good.
 

tphuang

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Antimony import and export for 2025. It basically disappeared after April, especially for Antimony Oxide. Ever since September of 2024, Unwrought Antimony and antimony oxide basically became non-existent. I guess the little export that did go out went to Thailand Vietnam, Mexico & Canada. But again, after trade war started, that got cut off completely.

Since China is not exporting as much, its import has also dropped, especially through Thailand. I'm curious to see what happens to supply & demand outside of China.

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Again Antimony remains on the export restrictions list.
 
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