Chinese Economics Thread

W20

Junior Member
Registered Member
2-3

yes

But the discussion is or was (in the West) between 2 and 3

3 is +50% away from 2

In that discussion I was a defender of 3 because it was the only empirical number confirmed when crossed up or down: the reverse of the correlation between debt markets and equity markets: above 3 the atmosphere is one of fear or concern about inflation and below 3 the worry is/was deflation
 

W20

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Registered Member
On the other hand

I don't know what it's like now, I'm retired and quite disconnected, for example I remember when the yield of the US Tresaury 10 year obeyed a simple model that could be built with a moving average of nominal GDP, the velocity of money and the fed funds rate... until the model stopped working, perhaps due to the entry of China into that market, I mean that these econometric questions are not chiseled in marble or granite but are historical, even in large stretches of 50-100 years. Furthermore, nowadays we have to suspect that the quality of some numbers leaves much to be desired.
 

Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
The government is targeting 2% in 2025 - they targeted 3% historically - I think that should tell you all you need to know for what is a 'good CPI target'.

Well if your last comment is true I think @doggydogdo has some explaining to do. I also do recall lots of people here who seem to hate on anything that points to an 'under consumption' issue in China. Which begs the question:

Now that the PBOC Governor and the Politburo has called out under consumption as an issue/problem - are the people who say "China needs to consume more" wrong? Or is the Politburo wrong?

I do realize I am dunking - but I dunk on people who cannot observe problems as I do on Brad Setser/Michael Pettis when they are being retarded. I.E I'm an equal opportunity hater when it comes down to bad takes.

I would not call that "issues or problems"; it is more like shifts that have to be done in the short term cyclically.

So, they frame it as such so it actually gets done more urgently. And everything gets done successfully that way.

As seen as how the growth targets are regularly met, job targets are too, 5-year plans are always completed, etc.

You can't separate macroeconomics from industrial policy in economics and economic planning regarding China.

Industrial policy is 70-80% of the focus, and fiscal and monetary policies are just some peripheries (or tools for it).

You can understand this from every single major political public meeting, including the two sessions right now.

Also, their "consumption", is probably not what Western "consumption" is, as it's also based on industrial activity.

Buying more products that would create jobs, through targeted purchase incentives for consumer goods programs,

And not for uncontrolled credit card debt, to chase a limited amount of products, which defies basic common sense.

Economic focus in China is not like what West's macro guys think, but real-world first principles, logic, and mechanics,

For example, how to create more urban jobs, how to do more innovation (with new quality productive forces), etc.

How that will lead to even more high-quality productive economic growth that will improve standards over time.

It's also obvious that no economy can function without consumption (confidence), no one sane ever challenged that.

It just depends on what is the right balance between investment and consumption for the long term, and cycles.

They are issuing more debt now and making other various loose fiscal and monetary adjustments for sentiment.

It's a counter-cyclical adjustment, for consumer confidence, because it's necessary and makes sense for a while.
 
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doggydogdo

Junior Member
Registered Member
按照央行前行长易纲的说法,CPI在2%-3%之间是一个黄金区域。如果太低,低于1%靠近0左右,会有通缩风险;太高,就会担心有通胀的风险。当前CPI离这一区间还有差距。

Anon, Yi Gang is telling you you're wrong. Just stop.

潘功胜在讲话中含蓄地承认了中国面临着通缩压力,称中国国内价格增长和消费需求“可以更强劲”,并指过去中国经济主要是由投资驱动,现在更加重视消费。

Anon, Pan Gongsheng is also telling you you're wrong. Just stop.

Also, where are my "China doesn't need to consume more" enjoyoors? Governor of the competent central bank PBoC (the only thing @doggydogdo is right about) is telling you you're wrong.
You are literally obsessed with this deflation shit. You are so focused on saying "CHINA DEFLATION BAD" you fail to see China's economy is doing quite well actually.

read what the NPC think about China's economy right now
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

abenomics12345

Junior Member
Registered Member
You are so focused on saying "CHINA DEFLATION BAD" you fail to see China's economy is doing quite well actually.
Do show me when did I EVER say that China's economy is not 'doing quite well'? I'm only obsessed about this because your lack of ability to do a mea culpa. Like I said I'm an equal opportunity hater when it comes down to shitty takes.

This is the most 'short term' optimistic I am about the Chinese economy in 4 years - as I've countlessly posted here, I've always been fairly sanguine about the LT outlook.

If you find it too difficult to be both optimistic and see problems about the Chinese economy at the same time, then you should stick to Douyin short videos where all they talk about are how China has won. It'll make you feel better.

I would not call that "issues or problems"; it is more like shifts that have to be done in the short term cyclically.

So, they frame it as such so it actually gets done more urgently. And everything gets done successfully that way.

As seen as how the growth targets are regularly met, job targets are too, 5-year plans are always completed, etc.

You can't separate macroeconomics from industrial policy in economics and economic planning regarding China.

Industrial policy is 70-80% of the focus, and fiscal and monetary policies are just some peripheries (or tools for it).

You can understand this from every single major political public meeting, including the two sessions right now.

Also, their "consumption", is probably not what Western "consumption" is, as it's also based on industrial activity.

Buying more products that would create jobs, through targeted purchase incentives for consumer goods programs,

And not for uncontrolled credit card debt, to chase a limited amount of products, which defies basic common sense.

Economic focus in China is not like what West's macro guys think, but real-world first principles, logic, and mechanics,

For example, how to create more urban jobs, how to do more innovation (with new quality productive forces), etc.

How that will lead to even more high-quality productive economic growth that will improve standards over time.

It's also obvious that no economy can function without consumption (confidence), no one sane ever challenged that.

It just depends on what is the right balance between investment and consumption for the long term, and cycles.

They are issuing more debt now and making other various loose fiscal and monetary adjustments for sentiment.

It's a counter-cyclical adjustment, for consumer confidence, because it's necessary and makes sense for a while.

Yes, cyclical issues matter because they turn structural if they're not corrected. If I've not made clear, at this point there should be ZERO question about the LT structural growth trajectory of the Chinese economy. Whatever we debate here should be framed around 1-2 year cyclical outlooks because debating about the LT is like debating whether water is wet - the answer is obvious and frankly intellectually boring.

See what I wrote about the CEWC readout:

会议指出,当前外部环境变化带来的不利影响加深,我国经济运行仍面临不少困难和挑战,主要是国内需求不足,部分企业生产经营困难,群众就业增收面临压力,风险隐患仍然较多。

The CEWC also prioritizes consumption as #1 focus ahead of technology/innovation which is important but deprioritized to #2 on the list of directives. That gives you plenty of evidence of what they want to focus on for 2025. Last I checked, 需求不足 means insufficient demand.
 
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proelite

Junior Member
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