Chinese Economics Thread


solarz

Brigadier
I didn't say or imply anything of the sort. I was responding to solarz post where he(?) stated that "money talks, bullshit walks". There is no ambiguity in that statement. It is arrogant and offensive, it is wrong, and as an approach to negotiations it is unproductive and even dangerous.

You know what's arrogant and offensive? Invading another country on fabricated evidence.

Raising tariffs and suspending aid? Not so much.
 

stibyssip

New Member
I didn't say or imply anything of the sort. I was responding to solarz post where he(?) stated that "money talks, bullshit walks". There is no ambiguity in that statement. It is arrogant and offensive, it is wrong, and as an approach to negotiations it is unproductive and even dangerous.
If you are sympathetic to the Dalai cause, you're naturally going to take offense at someone calling his visit "bullshit." But let's remember we are commentators on a web forum and not diplomats at the negotiation table. With that in mind, I think solarz's point represents a fair enough assessment, even if he is irreverent in making it.

At the end of the day, if a major partner (China) has high levels of economic leverage over you (Mongolia), reaffirming ties with your partner's vowed enemy (the Dalai Lama) through such symbolic gestures is unlikely to result in the best outcome for yourself. Let's not be naive. What else is as fundamental to international relations as interests? What else is as fundamental to interests as capital?
 

solarz

Brigadier
If you are sympathetic to the Dalai cause, you're naturally going to take offense at someone calling his visit "bullshit." But let's remember we are commentators on a web forum and not diplomats at the negotiation table. With that in mind, I think solarz's point represents a fair enough assessment, even if he is irreverent in making it.

The "bullshit" I was referring to was not the Dalai Lama, even though I find nothing reverent in the guy.

There's a reason I linked two articles. It was a before and after picture. Mongolia hosts the DL despite China's objections, and the western media praises it as a "model of how to stand up to China". Mongolia bends to Chinese pressure and says they won't host the DL anymore (of course, talk is cheap, and they specifically limited it to the current administration), and the western media laments yet another country "betraying historical ties" due to Chinese "intimidation".

THAT is the bullshit I was referring to.
 

stibyssip

New Member
The "bullshit" I was referring to was not the Dalai Lama, even though I find nothing reverent in the guy.

There's a reason I linked two articles. It was a before and after picture. Mongolia hosts the DL despite China's objections, and the western media praises it as a "model of how to stand up to China". Mongolia bends to Chinese pressure and says they won't host the DL anymore (of course, talk is cheap, and they specifically limited it to the current administration), and the western media laments yet another country "betraying historical ties" due to Chinese "intimidation".

THAT is the bullshit I was referring to.
Yes and everything the Dalai visit as a symbolic political signal offers Mongolia, which as you mentioned includes favour with the West
 

solarz

Brigadier
Yes and everything the Dalai visit as a symbolic political signal offers Mongolia, which as you mentioned includes favour with the West

I suspect that the problem is exactly that Mongolia was not able to gain any concrete "favors" from the West in exchange for what China threatened to cut off, which is why they decided to change course.

Mongolia tries to play all sides, nothing wrong with that. It only goes to show that China is able to make tangible offers while the West is only able to offer words.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Regardless of what one thinks of the DL, one thing is for sure and that is he has been inadvertently use as a political pawn between Western/Sino relations.
In many ways I feel sorry for him because I'm sure he didn't initially set out to be so however his advocacy for Tibetan independence and the rise of China's influence no doubt caused someone like him to become part of the political chessgame and therefore be used as a political pawn by the power players.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Regardless of what one thinks of the DL, one thing is for sure and that is he has been inadvertently use as a political pawn between Western/Sino relations.
In many ways I feel sorry for him because I'm sure he didn't initially set out to be so however his advocacy for Tibetan independence and the rise of China's influence no doubt caused someone like him to become part of the political chessgame and therefore be used as a political pawn by the power players.

The Dalai Lama fled Tibet after a failed coup attempt that is well documented to have been CIA funded and trained. So there's nothing "inadvertent" about it.

I find that many westerners think of the Dalai Lama as a purely religious figure, or at least as someone who can divorce his religious role from his political role. They see the DL as the "Pope" of Buddhism.

On the contrary, the DL is a political figure. Not everything he does is political, to be sure, but that doesn't change the fact that both his title and his advocacy are very much political.
 

AssassinsMace

Brigadier
The Dalai Lama is purely being used as a pawn. Just look at how China was suppose to stop doing business with Sudan over Darfur. Did the US stop doing business with China over Tibet? I was reading a recent article blaming China for the police beatings of Rohingya minorities in Myanmar because China never used its influence throughout history to force Myanmar to stop oppressing all its minorities. This beating happened under the US's puppet government's watch. Having trouble exerting influence getting the Myanmar government to stop oppressing their minorities? I also love how after the West romanticized Aung San Suu Kyi she's turned out to be no different from previous regimes on their views of their minorities. Hence why the spin to blame China because the West can't do themselves on a government they have influence what they've been demanding China do all this time.
 

advill

Junior Member
As China grows economically, so will the region. The US and some Westerners should stop the blame game and finger pointing on several issues, as they are inviting the same from others. The best advice is "Be very wary as their decline could be forthcoming", as the US and some Western countries have internal divisions among their people. So no point lecturing, instead why not be friendly and cooperate with others in Asia for mutual benefits? Negotiate sensibly and diplomatically and never be brash or pushy as there will be equally forceful repercussions.
 

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