China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft - esp. Y-20/YY-20

The Observer · 2025-12-03T04:48:23-0500

BoraTas said:
We may get another aircraft between the 200+ tonne Y-20 and the 75-90 tonne Y-30. I wouldn't be surprised if they would introduce another transport tier but with a MTOW of 120 to 140 tonnes. Several countries opted for that MTOW range with the C-2 and the A400M. I would say a propfan would be the ideal engine for such an aircraft. It is more appropriate for higher speeds than a turboprop but is also more fuel efficient and is more capable of short take-offs compared to a turbofan.

So something like An-70? I think you either go Y-9 class + Y-20 class, or go directly to An-70 class + Y-20 class. 3 classes with ~15 ton payload gap each feels a bit too crowded.

So you either pick the flexibility of C-130/Y-9, or the higher capacity of An-70/A400M. I think for Y-9 class it might be filled with drones, especially since Shannxi had proposed Y-9 drone.

So maybe aim Y-30 closer to An-70 class with payload enough for 1 PCL-181 or 1 ZTQ-15, instead of 2 on Y-20.

ACuriousPLAFan · 2025-12-03T12:28:25-0500

BoraTas said:
We may get another aircraft between the 200+ tonne Y-20 and the 75-90 tonne Y-30. I wouldn't be surprised if they would introduce another transport tier but with a MTOW of 120 to 140 tonnes. Several countries opted for that MTOW range with the C-2 and the A400M. I would say a propfan would be the ideal engine for such an aircraft. It is more appropriate for higher speeds than a turboprop but is also more fuel efficient and is more capable of short take-offs compared to a turbofan.

Don't quite see how a separate tier of airlifter that is placed in between the Y-30 and Y-20 would be necessary for the case of the PLAAF.

For the WIP Y-30, the PLAAF certainly can go with either a turboprop-powered airlifter that is situated in between the C-130J and A400M (with 4x WJ-10s or the hypothetical WJS-XXs), or a turbofan-powered airlifter that is either a counterpart to the C-390 (with 2x WS-20s) or the C-2 (with 2x 23-25 ton-force WS-XXs).

The expected payload capacity of this next-generation medium airlifter would be around 25-30 tons, with the last option potentially offering high-30s of tons of payload capacity. This means that the overlap between the Y-9 and the Y-30 in terms of payload capacity (let alone other parameters and characteristics) would be pretty huge, especially when considering the former's payload capacity of just around 20 tons.

In the meantime, we certainly won't be expecting the Y-30 to be able to carry payloads of 40+ tons either.

Hence, we might as well just delegate the Y-30 to succeed the Y-8/9 family entirely, whether the Y-30 is turbofan, turboprop or propfan-powered.

Tomboy · 2025-12-03T16:50:05-0500

As a reference, it seems like Russia is going with their Il-276 design to replace An-12.

Twinjet transport with 20-25t payload.

IMO, from what I've heard about turboprop transports like Y-9 is proving to be insufficient might point to a turbofan or propfan equipped Y-30 with a reasonable upgrade in payload but I doubt anything in the 35+ ton region.

sunnymaxi · 2025-12-03T17:51:07-0500

Atomicfrog said:
Dont know how wide they want it to be. Y-9 cargo width of 3.2m or Y-20/A-400 width of 4m to use the same cargo pallets ?

You need to have a bigger gain than just been an Y-9 with better engines.

sorry for late reply.

Shaanxi didn't reveal anything.. but it will be a medium category class aircraft and a clean-sheet design with Brand new Engines.

there is also strong rumor of twin turbofan Engines platform in 100-150 tons category.

BoraTas · 2025-12-04T01:47:00-0500

ACuriousPLAFan said:
Don't quite see how a separate tier of airlifter that is placed in between the Y-30 and Y-20 would be necessary for the case of the PLAAF.

For the WIP Y-30, the PLAAF certainly can go with either a turboprop-powered airlifter that is situated in between the C-130J and A400M (with 4x WJ-10s or the hypothetical WJS-XXs), or a turbofan-powered airlifter that is either a counterpart to the C-390 (with 2x WS-20s) or the C-2 (with 2x 23-25 ton-force WS-XXs).

The expected payload capacity of this next-generation medium airlifter would be around 25-30 tons, with the last option potentially offering high-30s of tons of payload capacity. This means that the overlap between the Y-9 and the Y-30 in terms of payload capacity (let alone other parameters and characteristics) would be pretty huge, especially when considering the former's payload capacity of just around 20 tons.

In the meantime, we certainly won't be expecting the Y-30 to be able to carry payloads of 40+ tons either.

Hence, we might as well just delegate the Y-30 to succeed the Y-8/9 family entirely, whether the Y-30 is turbofan, turboprop or propfan-powered.

I was just speculating. I find it highly likely that the Y-30 is a quad turboprop aircraft that is just moderately heavier than the Y-9. It would use the same infrastructure and logistical practices. Not ballooning the price would also enable one-to-one replacement if not a bigger fleet. If there is a propfan in development it is probably not for the Y-30.

Something else to note is the UK and Turkey (though Qatar) operate C-130, A400M and C-17 at once. The wisdom behind this could be debated but having aircraft in all three of these weight brackets wouldn't be unheard of.

ACuriousPLAFan · 2025-12-04T06:21:47-0500

BoraTas said:
I was just speculating. I find it highly likely that the Y-30 is a quad turboprop aircraft that is just moderately heavier than the Y-9. It would use the same infrastructure and logistical practices. Not ballooning the price would also enable one-to-one replacement if not a bigger fleet. If there is a propfan in development it is probably not for the Y-30.

Well yeah, there's that.

In the meantime, given that we don't have any solid/reliable inferences on the current status of developmental efforts of the propfan and 25 ton-force turbofan engines in China (unlike, say, the WS-20 and WJ-10) - Should the Y-30 be using any of those engines, then we likely won't be seeing this airlifter anytime soon.

BoraTas said:
Something else to note is the UK and Turkey (though Qatar) operate C-130, A400M and C-17 at once. The wisdom behind this could be debated but having aircraft in all three of these weight brackets wouldn't be unheard of.

The UK certainly has retired their C-130Js by now. The RAF currently only operates the A400M and C-17.

Deino · 2025-12-04T06:45:35-0500

sunnymaxi said:
sorry for late reply.

Shaanxi didn't reveal anything.. but it will be a medium category class aircraft and a clean-sheet design with Brand new Engines.

there is also strong rumor of twin turbofan Engines platform in 100-150 tons category.

Interesting! Not that I heard any concrete rumours, but IMO a type similar to an enlarged KC-390 or like the C-2 would be a good choice.
However anything closer to 150 tonnes is IMO a bit too much on the "too large & heavy" side.

ACuriousPLAFan said:
Well yeah, there's that.

In the meantime, given that we don't have any solid/reliable inferences on the current status of developmental efforts of the propfan and 25 ton-force turbofan engines in China (unlike, say, the WS-20 and WJ-10) - Should the Y-30 be using any of those engines, then we likely won't be seeing this airlifter anytime soon.
...

I totally agree ... so what about a maybe modular approach since we all know, the original Y-20 has some Antonov or even An-70 genes in it: Take a Y-20 and shorten its fuselage, retain the diameter and add a smaller wing with less span featuring only two WS-20 engines?

Someone with some decent AI-capabilities should give it a try!

ACuriousPLAFan · 2025-12-04T07:51:15-0500

Deino said:
Interesting! Not that I heard any concrete rumours, but IMO a type similar to an enlarged KC-390 or like the C-2 would be a good choice.
However anything closer to 150 tonnes is IMO a bit too much on the "too large & heavy" side.

The MTOWs of the aforementioned medium airlifters with 30+ tons of payload capacity are as follows:
1. A400M = ~141 tons
2. An-70 = ~145 tons
3. C-2 = ~142 tons

Hence, to be fair - If a direct C-2-counterpart (with two 25 ton-force WS-XXs), a direct A400M-counterpart (with four 8000 kW WJ-XXs) or a direct An-70-counterpart (with four propfan-based WJS-XXs) is to be developed as the Y-30 to succeed the Y-8/9 family, then having a payload capacity in the mid-to-high 30s of tons and a MTOW that is close to 150 tons is rather unavoidable.

China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft - esp. Y-20/YY-20

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