China's Space Program Thread II

by78

General
The maiden launch of Jielong-3 was a success. It lifted off from a launch barge in the Yellow Sea and successfully inserted 14 satellites into their pre-determined orbit.

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The launch cadence of Jielong-3 will be stepped up in the second half of this year, with one launch scheduled for each months of September, October, November, and December.

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gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
How good is China with regards to ion propulsion in satellites? I am not that familiar with Chinese satellite propulsion methods.
 

stoa1984

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yes it is a space race for the Americans who do not want to see other nations overtake them, but for the Chinese it is just following a schedule that was planned more or less 20 years ago. They do not consider themselve in a race with the Americans.

To prove that China is indeed closely following the every move of its U.S. rival, and not at all 'completing a plan made 20 years ago', I will show that the ever changing proteiform CZ-9 might further evolve and finish declined into no less than several variants, including the Space Launch System (SLS), and something that is even more advanced than the SpaceX's Starship!

Superseding the expendable kerolox engine CZ-9 SLS (with solid and liquid boosters versions), the newer Reusable VTVL Chinese methalox engine powered CZ-9 with grid fins was first announced this year in 2023, when it was obvious that the U.S. Starship concept would soon bear fruit.

Then a Chinese Starship was presented:

ab355476133bf9d98012f4d4b0fcf3ec838d010f.jpg

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▲ CZ-9 Starship· Apr 24, 2023



The SpaceX Starship concept was born to address the U.S. Space shuttle's heat shield tiles shortcomings:

• The Starship heat shield tiles are made from a dense tough ceramic (Tufroc I think it is called), whereas the orbiter tiles had a fibre/foam/aerogel core that was very insulating but was rather fragile, and prone to absorbing moisture.

• Unlike U.S. Space Shuttle which hung even with the tank and SRB boosters, Starship is on top of the stack and there should be nothing to fall on it and damage the tiles.

• With the U.S. Space Shuttle's aluminum airframe, excessive heating can cause rapid and catastrophic melting of the structure. The Starship's Stainless steel, in contrast, maintains its strength up to much higher temperatures.

Alas, rocket cam video from the 20th April 2023 fully integrated Starship maiden launch have revealed heat shield tiles falling off during the 30 km ascent.

In short this Elonesque bogus concept is as flawed as the self-driving Tesla cars that keep crashing! And indeed, Musk never studied or majored in aerospace engineering.

Even with less than 1% probability of losing a Starship during atmospheric reentry, this means 100+ casualties in the future or loss of payload after the 100th launch. Not acceptable.

Now the predicted future iteration of the Chinese CZ-9: 长征九号斯托克型运载火箭 with a regeneratively cooled heat shield.

It will not be the CZ-9 Starship, but the fully Reusable VTVL 2 stages CZ-9 Stoke!

Stoke Space to build SpaceX Raptor engine’s first real competitor
The first booster engine Stoke Space ever attempts to build will be a reusable full-flow staged combustion engine powered by liquid methane and liquid oxygen – essentially a smaller version of SpaceX’s Raptor. Stoke’s booster is otherwise familiar and features deployable landing legs like SpaceX’s Falcon boosters. Lapsa says it will likely also have grid fins.
In some ways, the upper stage of Stoke’s first rocket is even more ambitious. Powered by hydrogen and oxygen propellant, Stoke has designed a conical capsule-like upper stage with an integral fairing. The upper stage’s propulsion is exotic and unique. A large pump will feed propellant to up to 30 combustion chambers distributed around the rim of its heat shield. The exhaust coming from those 30 chambers will expand and partially push against the upper stage’s equally exotic metallic, liquid-cooled heat shield. That expansion against the heat shield improves the efficiency of the upper stage and means that its engine will technically be an aerospike.
34075c2e980eb5a0e6f91afb8670b0f01f3d6028.jpg
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▲ Aerospike upper stage with regeneratively cooled steel heat shield.
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078fab2b5bc485336d41a0e9414f1db856450771.jpg

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▲ Stoke Space second stage's 15 of the 30 thrusters. · Dec 23, 2022

A concept obviously copied from East Asia:

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” –

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▲ Ancient Siamese multi-nozzles circular rocket.

:D
 

pevade

Junior Member
Registered Member
Stoke Space to build SpaceX Raptor engine’s first real competitor
The first booster engine Stoke Space ever attempts to build will be a reusable full-flow staged combustion engine powered by liquid methane and liquid oxygen – essentially a smaller version of SpaceX’s Raptor. Stoke’s booster is otherwise familiar and features deployable landing legs like SpaceX’s Falcon boosters. Lapsa says it will likely also have grid fins.
In some ways, the upper stage of Stoke’s first rocket is even more ambitious. Powered by hydrogen and oxygen propellant, Stoke has designed a conical capsule-like upper stage with an integral fairing. The upper stage’s propulsion is exotic and unique. A large pump will feed propellant to up to 30 combustion chambers distributed around the rim of its heat shield. The exhaust coming from those 30 chambers will expand and partially push against the upper stage’s equally exotic metallic, liquid-cooled heat shield. That expansion against the heat shield improves the efficiency of the upper stage and means that its engine will technically be an aerospike.
34075c2e980eb5a0e6f91afb8670b0f01f3d6028.jpg
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▲ Aerospike upper stage with regeneratively cooled steel heat shield.
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078fab2b5bc485336d41a0e9414f1db856450771.jpg

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▲ Stoke Space second stage's 15 of the 30 thrusters. · Dec 23, 2022
I dunno about Stoke Space's concept of many tiny rockets. Generally, many tiny rockets also means you have many points of failure. Also their claim of "rapid reuse" is complete BS. Despite SpaceX's Falcon 9 giving the impression of being rapidly reusable, their rockets typically need to undergo many many months of reconditioning as the engines and avionics are meticulously checked to ensure safety and reliability. You can just refuel your rocket and yeet it into space immediately.
Also the efficiency of their second stage must be shit given that they decided to go with many smaller exhaust nozzles.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
To prove that China is indeed closely following the every move of its U.S. rival, and not at all 'completing a plan made 20 years ago', I will show that the ever changing proteiform CZ-9 might further evolve and finish declined into no less than several variants, including the Space Launch System (SLS), and something that is even more advanced than the SpaceX's Starship!

Superseding the expendable kerolox engine CZ-9 SLS (with solid and liquid boosters versions), the newer Reusable VTVL Chinese methalox engine powered CZ-9 with grid fins was first announced this year in 2023, when it was obvious that the U.S. Starship concept would soon bear fruit.

Then a Chinese Starship was presented:

ab355476133bf9d98012f4d4b0fcf3ec838d010f.jpg

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▲ CZ-9 Starship· Apr 24, 2023




The SpaceX Starship concept was born to address the U.S. Space shuttle's heat shield tiles shortcomings:

• The Starship heat shield tiles are made from a dense tough ceramic (Tufroc I think it is called), whereas the orbiter tiles had a fibre/foam/aerogel core that was very insulating but was rather fragile, and prone to absorbing moisture.

• Unlike U.S. Space Shuttle which hung even with the tank and SRB boosters, Starship is on top of the stack and there should be nothing to fall on it and damage the tiles.

• With the U.S. Space Shuttle's aluminum airframe, excessive heating can cause rapid and catastrophic melting of the structure. The Starship's Stainless steel, in contrast, maintains its strength up to much higher temperatures.

Alas, rocket cam video from the 20th April 2023 fully integrated Starship maiden launch have revealed heat shield tiles falling off during the 30 km ascent.

In short this Elonesque bogus concept is as flawed as the self-driving Tesla cars that keep crashing! And indeed, Musk never studied or majored in aerospace engineering.

Even with less than 1% probability of losing a Starship during atmospheric reentry, this means 100+ casualties in the future or loss of payload after the 100th launch. Not acceptable.

Now the predicted future iteration of the Chinese CZ-9: 长征九号斯托克型运载火箭 with a regeneratively cooled heat shield.

It will not be the CZ-9 Starship, but the fully Reusable VTVL 2 stages CZ-9 Stoke!

Stoke Space to build SpaceX Raptor engine’s first real competitor
The first booster engine Stoke Space ever attempts to build will be a reusable full-flow staged combustion engine powered by liquid methane and liquid oxygen – essentially a smaller version of SpaceX’s Raptor. Stoke’s booster is otherwise familiar and features deployable landing legs like SpaceX’s Falcon boosters. Lapsa says it will likely also have grid fins.
In some ways, the upper stage of Stoke’s first rocket is even more ambitious. Powered by hydrogen and oxygen propellant, Stoke has designed a conical capsule-like upper stage with an integral fairing. The upper stage’s propulsion is exotic and unique. A large pump will feed propellant to up to 30 combustion chambers distributed around the rim of its heat shield. The exhaust coming from those 30 chambers will expand and partially push against the upper stage’s equally exotic metallic, liquid-cooled heat shield. That expansion against the heat shield improves the efficiency of the upper stage and means that its engine will technically be an aerospike.
34075c2e980eb5a0e6f91afb8670b0f01f3d6028.jpg
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▲ Aerospike upper stage with regeneratively cooled steel heat shield.
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078fab2b5bc485336d41a0e9414f1db856450771.jpg

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▲ Stoke Space second stage's 15 of the 30 thrusters. · Dec 23, 2022

A concept obviously copied from East Asia:



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▲ Ancient Siamese multi-nozzles circular rocket.

:D
You have three meals everyday as a routine just like everybody else, that is your plan. However if I eat cooked meat, you must eat raw meat, otherwise you are following every move of mine?

The plan is about when to do what, the how is not limited to any alternatives which include competitors.

I have read your own thread which seems to only have yourself as the audience. So I suggest that you stay there untill you grow some common sense.
 
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