China's Space Program News Thread

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Nutrient

Junior Member
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[giant solar power plant on the Moon]
[huge Boeing rocket]
Anyone can find some dumb proposals to laugh at; that does not mean all proposals are impractical.

My suggestion is to use lunar resources to build the solar power satellites (SPSs); the Moon has abundant silicon dioxide. Launching from the lunar surface will be cheap, if we can find propellants somewhere (like Phobos).

The CZ-9 and ILRS won't be cost-effective just for scientific research, or just for international cooperation, or just for SPSs. But for all three, hell yes, they'll be worth it -- especially if there's the potential to save the world from global warming.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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You do not need to go to Phobos. There is research on hybrid solid/liquid rockets which use Aluminum as propellant and LOX as oxidizer for example. The Isp is kind of on the low side but it is relatively easy to mine and process using Lunar materials. Also there is enough evidence there should be water ice on the Moon inside poorly lit craters. You could electrolyze that ice and use it on a nuclear thermal rocket for example.

The thing is, keeping the solar panels on the Moon is a lot easier. Those proposals I put above are not dumb. In theory they could be made to work. It would take considerable time and money though. At least they make more sense than orbital solar power satellites using expendable launch vehicles. Or mining the Moon for He3 which is sheer idiocy as well. Try reading about how much lunar dirt you would need to sift through to get even a minute amount of He3.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
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Blast from the past. Images taken by
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during the Shenzhou-5 mission, China's first manned spaceflight.

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Released almost 18 years after the photos were taken. That gives people a lesson (again) that China not showing or saying something means just that, no further conclusion can be made. A kind of "I control the feed of information, I make you frustrated in anticipation, therefor I control your emotion" In a way a bit "sadistic".:D
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
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Responding to your points in the order I prefer...


The thing is, keeping the solar panels on the Moon is a lot easier.
Not at all. The Moon is above an Earthly horizon for half a month and below it for the next half month. So your lunar panels would deliver no power for weeks on end, and do it every month. Completely useless. As I said, a dumb idea.

You could put a giant mirror in Earth orbit to reflect the lunar power beam during the periods when the beam would otherwise be off, but if you did that you may as well have a power satellite in geosync orbit. Not to mention the inverse-square advantages of having an SPS ten times closer than the moon, meaning the SPS would need a hundred times less collecting area than the lunar farm, and the receiving rectenna on Earth would be a hundred times smaller.


You do not need to go to Phobos. There is research on hybrid solid/liquid rockets which use Aluminum as propellant and LOX as oxidizer for example. The Isp is kind of on the low side but it is relatively easy to mine and process using Lunar materials.
When you turn an aluminum rocket off, the fuel has an inconvenient tendency to freeze: imagine a solid plug of metal blocking the paths inside the engine. How do you restart the engine in that case? If you want to slow down at the destination, you have to restart it. I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting for an aluminum-fueled rocket to be practical.

Besides, once the Phobos infrastructure is in place, the water will be almost free, as we can use a portion of the water mined from the Martian moon as propellant to move the rest of the water.

(If it turns out that Phobos has no water, then substitute some other body with abundant water, such as Ceres. Again, the water will be almost free.)
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
One idea the CNSA can toy with after launching the space solar power plant is to use it for power beaming. Instead of installing a separate generator onboard the next deep space probe/spaceship, they can wirelessly transmit the energy to the spacecraft from the station.
 

anzha

Captain
Registered Member
One idea the CNSA can toy with after launching the space solar power plant is to use it for power beaming. Instead of installing a separate generator onboard the next deep space probe/spaceship, they can wirelessly transmit the energy to the spacecraft from the station.

Seems most useful for a lunar station in the Lunar South Pole in the Shackleton Crater.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
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Yeah, I know, it's lame to reply to my own comment.
But I need to fix an error..

Not at all. The Moon is above an Earthly horizon for half a month and below it for the next half month. So your lunar panels would deliver no power for weeks on end, and do it every month. Completely useless. As I said, a dumb idea.
Oops. From an Earthly perspective, the Moon is above the horizon for half a day, and below for the rest of the day. So that would make a lunar solar farm little better than a farm of solar panels on the surface of the Earth, and a lot more expensive. So solar panels on the Moon are still a dumb idea.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
One idea the CNSA can toy with after launching the space solar power plant is to use it for power beaming. Instead of installing a separate generator onboard the next deep space probe/spaceship, they can wirelessly transmit the energy to the spacecraft from the station.

The wireless energy might even be used to power a VASIMR engine:
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.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Oops. From an Earthly perspective, the Moon is above the horizon for half a day, and below for the rest of the day. So that would make a lunar solar farm little better than a farm of solar panels on the surface of the Earth, and a lot more expensive. So solar panels on the Moon are still a dumb idea.

If you watch the video, the whole idea is they would use relay satellites to beam the power back to Earth. Not a direct link.
You could basically use the microwave equivalent of a mirror, or use a repeater.
David Criswell worked on the ideas for the concept since the 1970s. It is quite viable.
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vincent

Grumpy Old Man
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If you watch the video, the whole idea is they would use relay satellites to beam the power back to Earth. Not a direct link.
You could basically use the microwave equivalent of a mirror, or use a repeater.
David Criswell worked on the ideas for the concept since the 1970s. It is quite viable.
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I’m sure it can cook an entire city too.
 
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