China's Space Program News Thread


Dongfeng

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Re: China’s Manned Military Space Ambitions

Since ChinaWhite has provided evidence, I have unlocked the thread for further discussion
 
Last edited:

Fairthought

Junior Member
Re: China’s Manned Military Space Ambitions

It seems several posters owe Darth Sidious an apology. The Soviet Union did indeed test a 23 mm cannon on board an orbiting military space station. Here is the website:

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here is a quote from that rather long article:

Primary Almaz systems comprised:
Weapons

Nudelmann NR-23 23 mm (or NR-30 30 mm) cannon. This was a self-defence weapon used for defending the station against interception by American spacecraft. It was an adaptation of a standard Soviet aircraft cannon. Range was from 500 to 3000 m against co-orbital targets. When being fired, station or
Gun sight Sokol-1 (see below)


Sokol-1 PKO Circular Observing Periscope. This panoramic periscope was used for observation of space and earth and for tracking space and surface targets. Magnification 1.5x to 6.0 x; field of view 40 deg to 10 deg; Observation angles: horizontal to +210 deg; vertical -10 deg below to 90 deg (zenith).

farther down in the article:

24 June 1974 Salyut 3 Program: Almaz. Launch Site: Baikonur . Launch Vehicle: Proton 8K82K. Mass: 18,500 kg. Perigee: 213 km. Apogee: 253 km. Inclination: 51.6 deg. Duration: 90.00 days.
First successful Almaz military manned space station flight. Tested a wide array of reconnaissance sensors. Following the successful Soyuz 14 and unsuccessful Soyuz 15 missions, on 23 September 1974 the station ejected a film return capsule. The KSI capsule suffered damage during re-entry but all the film was recoverable. On 24 January 1975 trials of the on-board 23 mm Nudelmann aircraft cannon (other sources say it was a Nudelmann NR-30 30 mm gun) were conducted. The next day the station was commanded to retrofire to a destructive re-entry over the Pacific Ocean. Although only one of three planned crews managed to board the station, that crew did complete the first completely successful Soviet space station flight. Additional Details: Salyut 3 (1678).

It is also funny that someone would mention 'rods from God', as this was also a real space weapon program explored by the US during the 1990's. Information on this is highly confidential. No word on whether it is actually operational. Of course, the US government will refuse to confirm its existence.
 

chinawhite

Banned Idiot
Re: China’s Manned Military Space Ambitions

Anyone think china will develop battleship style space stations? Is sapce really the final frontier?.

here is some information i compiled at some random sites

Russian
23 mm/71.7 (0.91") VYa
145.5 lbs. (66 kg)
With a muzzel velocity of
2,985 - 3,020 fps (910 - 920 mps)
thats just over mach 4!
The craft could use the guns AS thrusters!

Russian
23 mm (0.91") AN-23



These guns were gas-operated and belt-fed.
The barrel was monoblock with a blade type breech.
The systems was controlled by Ksenon-125 radar.

So I see no reason why it would require manual aiming.
The only manual operation would be the correction of
alignment from shots, and the stabalizers would be
working overtime just to keep the craft stable.
Another reason I don't see this working.

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The above weapon, is one used on craft.

I didn't see anything like the such mounted
on the orbital craft. If it is armed they hid
that monster of a weapon well.

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Salyut 3



11.61 meters long and had a
maximum diameter of 4.15 meters.
Its useful volume totaled 47 cubic meters.

Though some science research was done, the station was
primarily used for military reconnaissance work.
Pavel Popovich, commander of the July 1974 Soyuz 14
flight to Salyut 3, is said to have indicated that the
cannon was installed on Salyut 3 but "fortunately he
was not forced to use it".

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Salyut 5
Was structurally similar to Salyut 3 and shared the
same official objectives -- test spacecraft systems,
design and equipment and conduct scientific and technological
research and experiments.
Included two solar panels laterally mounted to its center
and a detachable recovery module for returning data and
materials to the ground. Film could be developed and
analyzed in space and returned in the reentry capsules.

Both of their orbits decayed, and they re-entered the atmosphere.

Here is a website with technical details
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End Note

Does china really need to protect her space ships with these cannons. Is america going to abide by her treaties signed with the former soviet union.

China at this momment is still a long way behind in space technology but if the PLA sees it in their interest to have weapons in space it will get weapons in space.

PS: Nice link Fairthought


Regards,

chinawhite
 

T-U-P

The Punisher
Staff member
Super Moderator
Re: China’s Manned Military Space Ambitions

just a question: would the shell or the projectile actually make it to earth? wouldn't it melts completely while entering the atmosphere?

is so, then the purpose of having a cannon on a satellite is only to destroy other satellites, which is not worth it's cost IMO.
 

FriedRiceNSpice

Senior Member
Re: China’s Manned Military Space Ambitions

A cannon would not work without air, since air is needed to create the explosion/expansion that propels the projectile. Also, the recoil in space would actually move the spacecraft it is attached to, making aiming very, very difficult.
 

chinawhite

Banned Idiot
Re: China’s Manned Military Space Ambitions

This is Not A earth attacking cannon. but a "self-defense" cannon againest other satellites.

The gun is gas powered. THe cannon is attached inside of the space capsule with air. You you guys ever seen a low recoil cannon?. They make a 155mm with minimal reoil.

I must repeat this again. The russians have tested a cannon on the salyut 3 and Sucessfully hit a target. enough said

Regards,

chinawhite
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
Re: China’s Manned Military Space Ambitions

FriedRiceNSpice said:
A cannon would not work without air, since air is needed to create the explosion/expansion that propels the projectile. Also, the recoil in space would actually move the spacecraft it is attached to, making aiming very, very difficult.
i think the actual action, breech, bolt... of the gun are inside the sattelite. perhaps the barrel is sealed off from ouyter space until the gun is fired.

what i dont know is how the sattelite resists the force of the bullet once fired. once the bullet leaves the barrel, shouldnt its velocity suddenly be split with the sattelite, forciung the sattliet back at 500m per second?
 

walter

Junior Member
Re: China’s Manned Military Space Ambitions

MIGleader said:
i think the actual action, breech, bolt... of the gun are inside the sattelite. perhaps the barrel is sealed off from ouyter space until the gun is fired.

what i dont know is how the sattelite resists the force of the bullet once fired. once the bullet leaves the barrel, shouldnt its velocity suddenly be split with the sattelite, forciung the sattliet back at 500m per second?
not the velocity, but the impuls: mass x velocity. So a multi ton sattelite firing a projectile of a few kilos wouldn't shoot back at the velocity of the projectile but would recoil with the same impulse of the projectile. It could easily correct this with thrusters.
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
Re: China’s Manned Military Space Ambitions

walter said:
not the velocity, but the impuls: mass x velocity. So a multi ton sattelite firing a projectile of a few kilos wouldn't shoot back at the velocity of the projectile but would recoil with the same impulse of the projectile. It could easily correct this with thrusters.
i think its kinetic energy. for ever action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. in space, theres no inertia to stop a multi ton satteite from spinning off from the impact of a force. think of it as if you were on skakes on an ice rink. if you pusjhed something smaller than you, youd still get puched back quite a bit, although gravity would have an effect still.
 

Fairthought

Junior Member
Re: China’s Manned Military Space Ambitions

walter is right, it is conservation of momentum.

The mass of the bullets times their change in velocity must be counterbalanced by the mass of the space station times its change in velocity. Since the space station is much more massive, its change in velocity is very small. Attitude jets can easily compensate for any spin caused by the gun, and the station may either speed up or slow down depending upon the direction of fire.

By the way, attitude jets expel nitrogen gas. It is inert and lightwweight, as well as being the primary component of air.

The gun idea was abandoned anyway. Soviet satellites were outfitted with explosives triggered by a proximity fuse in the event the US space shuttle tried to 'nab' a soviet satellite or attach an eavesdropping parasite. It should be pointed out the Soviet navy was extremely vulnerable to this kind of Satellite attack. Their ships depended on satellite communications since the 1970's.
 

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