China's Space Program News Thread

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bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Re: china manned space - news and views

With the advent of Indias moon satellite launching, I note with interest that many newspapers suggest a Indian human landing on the moon around 2015?.
Does this mean that although the Indians are late starters compared to China, their current crop of Vechile launchers have a better capacity then Chinas, and therefore they arent faced with the lengthy delay of designing a new rocket with a bigger payload?
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Re: china manned space - news and views

Nope. I'm going to have to say it outright that those papers are a bunch of hot air. It takes more than a launcher to reach the moon. Ever noticed why Shenzhou 7 carried a patch of adhesive outside the spacecraft, which was only removed late in the voyage? That patch of adhesive is there to test the long term effects of the substance in space. That's the entire idea. You need to be able to test things from adhesives to living tissue under the space environment for longer terms to see how they can last in space, and that's the key to reaching the moon and beyond. Hence why its smart for China to set up a mini lab so they can put things in there and see what's going to happen to those things months later.

Plus I have not seen anything from India that suggests they got something that can lift something at least 7 tons into space.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: china manned space - news and views

With the advent of Indias moon satellite launching, I note with interest that many newspapers suggest a Indian human landing on the moon around 2015?.
Does this mean that although the Indians are late starters compared to China, their current crop of Vechile launchers have a better capacity then Chinas, and therefore they arent faced with the lengthy delay of designing a new rocket with a bigger payload?

It's called propapganda. For a country that hasn't put anyone into space, that's a bold prediction. How long was this mission delayed? Even China is cautious about a manned moon mission. The only reason why the 2015 date is because the media was throwing out there that China was going to do it around 2017 and before the US. So naturally for propaganda purposes they're going to say 2015.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Re: china manned space - news and views

Nope. I'm going to have to say it outright that those papers are a bunch of hot air. It takes more than a launcher to reach the moon. Ever noticed why Shenzhou 7 carried a patch of adhesive outside the spacecraft, which was only removed late in the voyage? That patch of adhesive is there to test the long term effects of the substance in space. That's the entire idea. You need to be able to test things from adhesives to living tissue under the space environment for longer terms to see how they can last in space, and that's the key to reaching the moon and beyond. Hence why its smart for China to set up a mini lab so they can put things in there and see what's going to happen to those things months later.

Plus I have not seen anything from India that suggests they got something that can lift something at least 7 tons into space.

No doubt the Indians would be provided with a lot of time saving help, as theres no need to go around reinventing the wheel so to speak, and werent the Russians prepared to sell to the Chinese a capsule ready to go?. THeir recent launching of ten satellites from the one rocket , does demonstrate a high level of ability..and it took america about 10yrs to accomplish a moon landing from the time man was first launched into space, therefore if any country had a mind to , they should be able to do it quicker second time round, would'nt they?
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Re: china manned space - news and views

anyway whats with all these blogs and newspaper articles suggesting that the space walk was a fake because of the bubbles and other incriminating evidence which casts doubt over what took place/ cant recall the name of the paper but iI think it has some links with the Fulun Gong? has anyone read it.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Re: china manned space - news and views

anyway whats with all these blogs and newspaper articles suggesting that the space walk was a fake because of the bubbles and other incriminating evidence which casts doubt over what took place/ cant recall the name of the paper but iI think it has some links with the Fulun Gong? has anyone read it.

Air bubbles in a water environment moves in a somewhat zig-zag fashion. The bubbles we saw in the footage moves in a straight line, and at a great speed too - which is somewhat weird for us because we have never seen bubbles behave that way but it's something to expect in a space environment.

And the flag should flaps exactly the way as we have seen. The reason being it's of a rubber material specially made for an airless and weightless outer space.

Really, if there is something fishy, you would hear it from the real space experts.
 
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crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Re: china manned space - news and views

No doubt the Indians would be provided with a lot of time saving help, as theres no need to go around reinventing the wheel so to speak, and werent the Russians prepared to sell to the Chinese a capsule ready to go?. THeir recent launching of ten satellites from the one rocket , does demonstrate a high level of ability..and it took america about 10yrs to accomplish a moon landing from the time man was first launched into space, therefore if any country had a mind to , they should be able to do it quicker second time round, would'nt they?

You do want to reinvent the wheel so to speak, so you know how the wheel works.

Notice that in Shenzhou 7, the guy who did the spacewalk had a Chinese designed suit, even though it looked closed to the Russian Orlan suit. The guy who was ready as a backup to rescue the first guy actually had a Russian Orlan spacesuit.

So why even bother with a China designed fairly close copy to the Orlan space suit when you have the original Russian suit in the first place? Isn't that too much trouble?

If the Indians depend too much on the Russians they won't expect to learn anything. I would give credit to the Indians that they understand the fine line between dependence and independence.

Satellites and rockets don't make a real spacecraft. A manned spacecraft teaches you a lot of issues that unmanned spaceflight cannot. How to create a survivable environment for the astronaut. How to create life sustaining systems. How to make these systems endure in space. How to make a humanly controllable aircraft. How to deploy and recover modules in space. How to recover the human occupant safely.

Its not the same to send a robot out in space as it is to send a human being. Manned spacecraft are indeed the stuff space dreams are made of. Not robotic probes.
 

redredwine

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Re: china manned space - news and views

"If the Indians depend too much on the Russians they won't expect to learn anything. I would give credit to the Indians that they understand the fine line between dependence and independence."

I suggest you dig more into this Indian Folklore about their "own" technology. Russians build their rockets and Americans and Europeans develop their satelites. You tell me what independence they have on this matter?

Just like the FORD/GM/HONDA etc we are making in China, it is the assembly line transplanted direct from these countries, but the Chinese JVs put the Chinese brand names behind the trunck of the car. Will you call it independence??

India is a farce. Period...
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Re: china manned space - news and views

I won't generalize a country and call it a farce period. At least they were able to send a probe to the moon with all the trajectory calculations and controls therein. Still you are right, some of the boosters are made in Russia, and the particular moon probe has more than half of its payload coming from other countries.

STEPHEN CLARK
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
Posted: October 22, 2008

The $80 million mission is India's answer to a pair of lunar missions launched last year by Japan and China. Both countries' moon orbiters are still collecting imagery and scientific data.

But unlike the Japanese and Chinese missions, India invited large contributions from other nations to put instruments on Chandrayaan 1. Scientists from Europe and the United States answered the call.

More than half of the probe's 11 instruments come from outside India. The European Space Agency spent $8 million to fund three payloads, while NASA provided two more sensors. Bulgarian scientists also contributed a radiation monitor to the mission.

The payloads will be turned on and tested by the end of November before the spacecraft begins an operational mission lasting at least two years, officials said.

Scientists expect data from Chandrayaan 1 to help create the most detailed global chemical map of the moon showing mineral concentrations across the lunar surface. Researchers will also make a three-dimensional terrain map of the moon based on information yielded by the mission.

"We are going to look at the moon slightly differently than the people who are looking at it (now). We're looking at the moon very systematically," said Mylswamy Annadurai, Chandrayaan 1 project director at ISRO. "We're going to make a repository of the whole moon and its contents."

ESA's three instruments come from teams led by scientists in the United Kingdom, Germany and Sweden.

"In an era of renewed interest for the moon on a worldwide scale, the ESA-ISRO collaboration on Chandrayaan 1 is a new opportunity for Europe to expand its competence in lunar science while tightening the long-standing relationship with India - an ever stronger space power," said David Southwood, ESA director of science and robotic exploration.

The ESA-funded X-ray and near-infrared imaging spectrometers, called C1XS and SIR 2, will detect mineral signatures in soil on and just below the lunar surface. Both instruments are based on similar sensors that flew aboard Europe's SMART 1 spacecraft, which was deliberately crashed into the moon in 2006.

"European scientists will have the fantastic opportunity to continue our work on the moon," said Detlef Koschny, ESA's Chandrayaan 1 project scientist.

Europe's instruments aboard Chandrayaan 1 will work closely with other countries' payloads to help fill in the blanks in what scientists know about the moon.

"The Apollo missions went down to the surface, but only in a limited number of spots, whereas Chandrayaan tries to do detailed imaging of the entire sphere of the moon," said Christian Erd, ESA's Chandrayaan 1 project manager.

SARA, the other ESA payload, will observe solar wind particles contacting the moon's surface to study its effects on the top layer of soil.

NASA provided a pair of instruments, the Moon Mineralogy Mapper and the MiniSAR radar, as part of the agency's effort to return to robotic exploration of the moon.

"The opportunity to fly NASA instruments on Chandrayaan 1 undoubtedly will lead to important scientific discoveries," said Michael Griffin, NASA administrator. "This exciting collaboration represents an important next step in what we hope to be a long and mutually beneficial relationship with India in future civil space exploration."

The Moon Mineralogy Mapper, nicknamed M3, is a visual and near-infrared imaging spectrometer designed to plot mineral resources at higher resolutions than any instrument before. M3 scientists from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory hope the device will help them create mineral maps to find science-rich landing sites for future missions.

M3 will also look for direct evidence of pockets of water ice hidden inside craters near the lunar poles. Scientists believe there are frozen water deposits deep within the eternally dark craters due to high concentrations of hydrogen found there on previous missions.

The MiniSAR payload was developed by the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory. The instrument will bounce radar beams off the lunar surface to look for signs of water ice packed inside the walls of deep craters near the moon's poles.

The combination of data from the M3 and MiniSAR instruments will allow researchers to determine how many craters could harbor the frozen water, NASA officials said.

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Quickie

Colonel
Re: china manned space - news and views

The first salvo from India...:D


'We Can Easily Catch Up With China'
Chairman of ISRO and the Space Commission on the moon mission and more

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"How do you compare India with China?

Compared to China we are better off in many areas. For example our communication satellites are world class. Chinese still depend on some foreign companies to supply some components. On launchers, we have very advanced capability. As far as manned-mission is concerned we are lagging behind, but that was a conscious decision on our part. Since it involves a lot of funds, in the initial phase of the moon programme we have not given thrust to that area. But given the funds and necessary approvals we can easily catch up with our neighbour in this area. "
 
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