China's SCS Strategy Thread

[lcloo]

So Japan will sell her 6x 30+ year-old Abukuma-class DDEs (which are basically similar to the 056 FFLs other than better speed and 4x more Harpoons) to the Philippines to allow the latter to "stand up to China".

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30+ years old 2,000 tons standard (2,550 tons fully loaded) DDE. (DDE is American code for Frigate).

Pinoys are going to spend a lot of time and money to keep these ship sea worthy. There will be a lot of repairs and overhauls for worn out mechanical parts and obsolete electronic equipment.

 

[ansy1968]

So Japan will sell her 6x 30+ year-old Abukuma-class DDEs (which are basically similar to the 056 FFLs other than better speed and 4x more Harpoons) to the Philippines to allow the latter to "stand up to China".

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Bro you don't seem to understand our strategy, those ship will show the flag of our sovereignty by grounding them as an island outpost.
It's more more cheaper than constructing an artificial island like what the Chinese and Vietnamese had done.

 

[zyklon]

So Japan will sell her 6x 30+ year-old Abukuma-class DDEs (which are basically similar to the 056 FFLs other than better speed and 4x more Harpoons) to the Philippines to allow the latter to "stand up to China".

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Akubuma DDEs are equipped with ASROC launchers too, so you'd think they're ASW oriented. However, there's no variable depth sonar or passive towed array, as found on the Type 056A.

They also displace about a thousand tons more than the Type 056/A when fully loaded, which means they'll be a lot more expensive to operate and maintain.

Pinoys are going to spend a lot of time and money to keep these ship sea worthy. There will be a lot of repairs and overhauls for worn out mechanical parts and obsolete electronic equipment.

JMSDF ships are known to be ridiculously well maintained and squared away. So these ships are probably in decent shape, at least for their age.

Though it might be a good idea from a budgetary perspective for one or two hulls to be kept as sources for spare parts, rather than to enter Filipino service.

These ships will do more to train and prepare Filipino crews for operating larger platforms down the road, should budgetary priorities allow, than add any sort of credible capability to the Filipino Navy in the short or medium term.

 

[ansy1968]

Akubuma DDEs are equipped with ASROC launchers too, so you'd think they're ASW oriented. However, there's no variable depth sonar or passive towed array, as found on the Type 056A.

They also displace about a thousand tons more than the Type 056/A when fully loaded, which means they'll be a lot more expensive to operate and maintain.



JMSDF ships are known to be ridiculously well maintained and squared away. So these ships are probably in decent shape, at least for their age.

Though it might be a good idea from a budgetary perspective for one or two hulls to be kept as sources for spare parts, rather than to enter Filipino service.

These ships will do more to train and prepare Filipino crews for operating larger platforms down the road, should budgetary priorities allow, than add any sort of credible capability to the Filipino Navy in the short or medium term.

My POV, Japan need to reassure the Philippine about their commitment since Uncle Sam is so busy at the Middle East. It's a good optic for Marcos since his PIVOT TO AMERICAN is in shambles and is looking like a strategic failure for his presidency. With America under extreme financial and military strain, every vassal who signed up are having second thought and are hedging. Japan who is task by US as their attack dog had just seen a dentist and had its fang removed....lol

Beneath the charity aspect , we need to see the big picture and one of those is the recruitment process, The Japanese are having problem finding sailors to man their newly built warship, not only in the Navy But also in the Army and Air Force. Second is budgetary issue, donating those old ship free up funds needed for their modernization, so a win win prepositioned for the Japanese.

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Jul 12, 2024 — Japan's tumbling birth rate, better pay in the private sector and scandals have emerged as the military's major stumbling block in attracting ...

 

[4Tran]

JMSDF ships are known to be ridiculously well maintained and squared away. So these ships are probably in decent shape, at least for their age.

Though it might be a good idea from a budgetary perspective for one or two hulls to be kept as sources for spare parts, rather than to enter Filipino service.

These ships will do more to train and prepare Filipino crews for operating larger platforms down the road, should budgetary priorities allow, than add any sort of credible capability to the Filipino Navy in the short or medium term.

The Philipine Navy has such low military potential that I don't think any purchase is going to be able to accomplish anything in the short or medium term. Perhaps, using these ships to do training can make for a more potent navy in the long term, but I doubt that Philippines does any long term planning. I suspect that trying to maintain and operate these old ships is going to cripple the navy's growth capability for the foreseeable future, but I'm generally a fan of retiring old equipment sooner rather than later.

Instead, I'm reading this as a signal to the US that Philippines is doing their bit in the South China Sea. That it still holds some value to the American position in the Western Pacific.

 

[ansy1968]

Instead, I'm reading this as a signal to the US that Philippines is doing their bit in the South China Sea. That it still holds some value to the American position in the Western Pacific.

Or please give me a gun instead of a knife, we were promise a lot for aligning with them like F16, brand new fully armed corvettes and frigates. Instead we were given F50 trainer plane, frigates without SAM AND SSM. A target rich environment for the Chinese to practice.

 

[4Tran]

Or please give me a gun instead of a knife, we were promise a lot for aligning with them like F16, brand new fully armed corvettes and frigates. Instead we were given F50 trainer plane, frigates without SAM AND SSM. A target rich environment for the Chinese to practice.

Philippines doesn't need any of that fancy gear though. It'd be nice to have on paper, but it'd also be very taxing to operate and maintain. And all for a capability that's only going to be good at provoking China. Maybe, when Philippines has a more capable economy to afford it, and competent people to actually operate it, a modern navy and airforce would be worthwhile. For the time being though, FA-50s are a better fit for where the country is.

 

[ansy1968]

Philippines doesn't need any of that fancy gear though. It'd be nice to have on paper, but it'd also be very taxing to operate and maintain. And all for a capability that's only going to be good at provoking China. Maybe, when Philippines has a more capable economy

Spot on!!!! you just nailed it. Just like the rest of ASEAN that has been enlighten....lol. We were on our way of sustained economic development until somebody whisper some sweet nothing to this idiotic president, we're able to maximized our advantage by playing both side and staying neutral. Money saves from military expenditure can be allocated for economic development like building infrastructure and education.

to afford it, and competent people to actually operate it, a modern navy and airforce would be worthwhile. For the time being though, FA-50s are a better fit for where the country is.

IF Your an archipelagic state like the PHILIPPINES which part of Armed Services will you pick for military expansion and modernization first?

The Air Forces? The Navy? or the Army? or all three at once. The problem with our situation aside from the obvious financial problem is our internal security, without peace and order you can't have economic development , it's a basic ECO 101.

For me the obvious answer is the Army, cause nobody in their right mind except for the US will invade this shithole of a country and owned it. We Just have to learn from Indonesia, a fellow Archipelagic country and see how they able to modernized their Armed Forces without bankrupting the Bank.

 

[Enestori]

I did a quick search, and basically the only truly Filipino-built naval ships are the tugboats (and even then the majority are donated from the USA).

A country that has trouble building tugboats does not have the capacity to maintain destroyer escorts.

Most likely, Japanese workers will be maintaining the Abukumas. Perhaps the Philippines will even sail them to Japan itself every several years for maintenance.

In essence, Japan is getting a free lifetime extension of its warships, generously funded by the Filipino government.

As an aside, India actually comes across as impressive compared to the Philippines. We all love to criticize India, but at least they can build flawed tanks, jet fighters, and warships including even flawed aircraft carriers. In contrast, as far as I can tell, the Philippines has never built a single tank or jet fighter in its entire history.

 

[Wrought]

I did a quick search, and basically the only truly Filipino-built naval ships are the tugboats (and even then the majority are donated from the USA).

A country that has trouble building tugboats does not have the capacity to maintain destroyer escorts.

Most likely, Japanese workers will be maintaining the Abukumas. Perhaps the Philippines will even sail them to Japan itself every several years for maintenance.

In essence, Japan is getting a free lifetime extension of its warships, generously funded by the Filipino government.

As an aside, India actually comes across as impressive compared to the Philippines. We all love to criticize India, but at least they can build flawed tanks, jet fighters, and warships including even flawed aircraft carriers. In contrast, as far as I can tell, the Philippines has never built a single tank or jet fighter in its entire history.

Despite all the mockery, India is not actually weak. They are a respectable middle power with the capabilties to match. It's just that they have delusions of grandeur about being a great power, and are therefore mocked accordingly.

The Philippines are just weak.