China's SCS Strategy Thread

[weig2000]

Paul Keating, former prime minister of Australia, penned his opinion on Morrison government's China policy.

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Spooked by China’s rise​

This is what all this warmongering is about – China’s presence and scale.

China’s rise is simply not in the American playbook – its very existence and at this scale is an affront to America’s notion of itself as the exceptional state, the proselytiser of divine providence.

Australia is a continent sharing a border with no other state. It has no territorial disputes with China – indeed, China is 12 flying hours away from the Australian coast.

Yet the government, both through its foreign policy incompetence and fawning compulsion to please America, effectively has us in a cold war with China.

 

[DarkStar]

Scratch an anglo australian and you'll find a white nationalist; the australian government tells its people all the shit policies it does vis-a-vis China is to "uphold the democratic rules based order" ie code for white supremacism.
Australia is heading into recession and not just because of COVID, without $$$ how is australia going to afford all those american weapons and french submarines to send to the SCS?

Li JianZhao put it best when he said that australia cannot profit from trashing relations with China.

 

[FireyCross]

Scratch an anglo australian and you'll find a white nationalist; the australian government tells its people all the shit policies it does vis-a-vis China is to "uphold the democratic rules based order" ie code for white supremacism.
Australia is heading into recession and not just because of COVID, without $$$ how is australia going to afford all those american weapons and french submarines to send to the SCS?

Li JianZhao put it best when he said that australia cannot profit from trashing relations with China.

Many Aussies aren't white nationalists and don't want to be part of the American empire-building game. Many Aussies work in industries that directly rely either on Chinese investment or on Chinese demand for their export goods. The last 20 years have completely transformed the Australian economy and made it one of the strongest in the west, and that's solely due to Chinese demand for and investment in minerals and agriculture, and the Chinese upper-middle and upper classes investing in Australian property as a safe haven for their wealth.

There are no shortage of bogans who lap up the headlines of the Telegraph and Courier Mail screeching about the yellow peril, and who reliably put a great bit "1" next to the Liberal candidate at every single opportunity. But, many Australians aren't as simplistic as their government, and desperately want a peaceful relationship with China and for the minerals to keep flowing, and don't like the idea of American ego getting in the way of that. They generally don't like Chinese domestic policies very much, but also don't especially care, or they don't feel Australia has any right or business interfering with that.

The biggest single problem in Australia is the Murdoch toxic press empire, which is completely beholden to American neo-con and imperial ambitions, and the Liberal party, which is beholden to Murdoch and ideologically enslaved to that same neo-con vision. Labor definitely has issues with China, but it isn't as completely delusional when it comes to basic economic and geopolitical realities.

From the Chinese point of view the upside is Australia doesn't have the technological or population base to make good on those delusions, and is too economically dependent to do anything drastic without totally self-destructing. That said, these same issues didn't stop Britain self-brexiting.... nostalgic delusions of grandeur can be hell of a drug :/

 

[pipaster]

Many Aussies aren't white nationalists and don't want to be part of the American empire-building game. Many Aussies work in industries that directly rely either on Chinese investment or on Chinese demand for their export goods. The last 20 years have completely transformed the Australian economy and made it one of the strongest in the west, and that's solely due to Chinese demand for and investment in minerals and agriculture, and the Chinese upper-middle and upper classes investing in Australian property as a safe haven for their wealth.

There are no shortage of bogans who lap up the headlines of the Telegraph and Courier Mail screeching about the yellow peril, and who reliably put a great bit "1" next to the Liberal candidate at every single opportunity. But, many Australians aren't as simplistic as their government, and desperately want a peaceful relationship with China and for the minerals to keep flowing, and don't like the idea of American ego getting in the way of that. They generally don't like Chinese domestic policies very much, but also don't especially care, or they don't feel Australia has any right or business interfering with that.

The biggest single problem in Australia is the Murdoch toxic press empire, which is completely beholden to American neo-con and imperial ambitions, and the Liberal party, which is beholden to Murdoch and ideologically enslaved to that same neo-con vision. Labor definitely has issues with China, but it isn't as completely delusional when it comes to basic economic and geopolitical realities.

From the Chinese point of view the upside is Australia doesn't have the technological or population base to make good on those delusions, and is too economically dependent to do an

The same australians who claim not to subscribe to white nationalism certainly have no objections when they benefit from that system of white supremacism, namely, those polite middle class white australians who read fairfax media and tu-tut and pretend they're morally superior to them coloured races, the same ones who call themselves liberal and yet tacitly allow and endorse policies that actively discirminate against asian males as competition against their own white privilege. As beneficiaries, they are as complicit in this racist anglo centred system built by the Five Eyes as if they had done a Cotton or Pompeo.

Secondly, you mentioned Labor and yet Labor did nothing when the witch hunts started against Chinese friendly politicians like Dastyari and Bob Carr- in fact, it got so bad that even Paul Keating had to come out with an op-ed to criticise the Coalitions' handling of China, along with John Howard in the AFR, although Howard was more diplomatic since he can't trash his own Liberal Party. On Labor, they had an out and out US plant in cabinet and yet ASIO did nothing, rather, that labor minister got promoted.

The ruling class of australia, being white, anglo may or may not be in favour of the jihad that anglo america has against China, but the act remains, they are complicit in the war against China and unless we start seeing the equivalent of the Generals' Plot against Hitler in Canberra, i remain unconvinced that nothing more than a PLA backed strong purge of the entire Australian Establishment is warranted.

Even if the Americans are forced out of the Asia-Pacific, Australia will still need to be taught a lesson in much the same way the crusader states had to be taught a lesson.

Why not let Indonesia play that time and get the benefits? This should provide a tool/promise to keep the Indonesians on China's side, especially with places like East Timor and PNG.

 

[DarkStar]

Why not let Indonesia play that time and get the benefits? This should provide a tool/promise to keep the Indonesians on China's side, especially with places like East Timor and PNG.

There's potential for Indonesia to be a 'swing state' given its population, strategic location and size but whereas China just needs Indonesia to remain neutral, the Anglos desperately need Indonesia to be on their side, to act as the indians and turks do ie coloured non white meat shields to soak up all the bullets and missiles before the white anglos can come riding in to declare victory.

The fact remains that anglos as a culture, despite the football hooliganism and bullying of smaller nations, are in reality, poor fighters and must make use of mercenary units (Ghurkhas) or local warlords to do the wet work that their people are simply incapable of performing.

 

[escobar]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1435199154670616577

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Has anyone here knows about these two prominent Australian academics/strategists that's on this video arguing that "China is not and will not be the dominant power in Asia." They both concurrently argued that China's military is weak and it's pre-ordained or inevitable rise is not only difficult to improbable. Therefore it's far more vital for Australia not to designed it's forces for war with China but rather play a pivotal role in bunting, countering China's "coercive" tactics and shoring up it's capabilities to ably support it's allies in the region.

This talk was made back in 2015 and even though it's about 6 years old the current Australian arrogance and assumptions seem to come from these 2 arrogant S.O.B.'s

There's a very easy way to evaluate this without wasting our time with it. It's from 2015, so compare some numbers from then to now.

	2015	2021
Chinese GDP	$11.1 trillion	$16.6 trillion
Chinese military spending	$141 billion	$209 billion

In six years GDP and defense spending have risen by 50% and 44%, respectively. Note that these are given at market exchange rates, which vastly understate the actual capabilities this spending allows. You can look at naval shipbuilding since 2015:

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Note that that stopped at 2018. You get the picture.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Even in 2015 that was a BS argument. The rapid development of China has been plainly obvious even to casual observers from the late 90s/early 00s onward. By the time of the global financial crisis it was impossible to miss.

Despite that, the conclusion of their argument, that Australia shouldn't develop a force based around a direct confrontation with China is sound. China is Australia's largest trading partner and China is heavily invested in Australian minerals and cattle. Australia partnering with the US is incredibly short sighted and harmful to her interests. She would be best served by a strict non-aligned stance, and shape her military doctrine around issues closer to home such as protecting her extended EEZ and territories in the Indian Ocean and the northern frontier, a modest but modern submarine capacity to confront any attempts at naval blockade, and a limited expeditionary capacity for the local region such as she used for INTERFET in Timor Leste.

There's a perfectly good explanation to this apparently Jekyll and Hyde behaviour.

Don't forget, back in 2015 (that's before Trump) and under Obama watch. The anti-China rhetoric though there, has not turned into open "hot peace" yet. So the five eyes, Quads, and the Huawei debacle (basically Trump's U.S. coerced anti-China "alliance") haven't started yet.

Also, at the time Australians were still enjoying export boom to China in spades.

So the narrative to it's populace (which was what that article is aimed at) is that China is no threat, so please can we all carry on and take advantage of the boom in exports to China.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Mmmm. From RT:

 

[A.Man]

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