China's SCS Strategy Thread

Richard Santos

Captain
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Just a few comments.

Yes, all this talk that "islands are a key leverage on international navigation" is a smokescreen, as certain actors want to have the ability to shut down the sea lanes in the SCS in the event of a blockade of China.

But keeping trade flowing in the SCS in all scenarios is key for China, which is the world's largest trading nation, with most of that trade flowing through the South China Seas.

And if the East China Sea is blocked, then the South China Seas represents the only outlet for China's shipping.


The scenario where East China Sea is denied to Chinese trade can only occur during a war with the US. Even in the case of war with japan, japan has more to lose from waging a no holds barred commerce war with China on the East China Sea than China.

In the case of war with the US, it is a reasonable assumption that the US could completely interdict Chinese seaborn commerce to middle east, near east, and Europe on the other side of the strait of malacca even if china holds onto all the islands in the South China Sea. The only value these islands would provide for the protection of Chinese seaborn trade would be to protect Chinese trade with the nations around South China Sea.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
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The scenario where East China Sea is denied to Chinese trade can only occur during a war with the US. Even in the case of war with japan, japan has more to lose from waging a no holds barred commerce war with China on the East China Sea than China.

In the case of war with the US, it is a reasonable assumption that the US could completely interdict Chinese seaborn commerce to middle east, near east, and Europe on the other side of the strait of malacca even if china holds onto all the islands in the South China Sea. The only value these islands would provide for the protection of Chinese seaborn trade would be to protect Chinese trade with the nations around South China Sea.

Yes, Japan potentially has more to lose in a conflict with China, but that is not to say such a scenario can't happen.

And if the islands in the SCS protect Chinese trade with the SCS littoral nations, that will help break any blockade of China. We're looking at Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia who would want to remain neutral Add in Laos and Myanmar, and that is almost all of South East Asia (8 nations comprising 500million people).

That offers a lot of transshipment possibilities to break a blockade
 

Blitzo

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The islands can't be left to "wither on the vine" are they are too easy to resupply and reconstitute by China, after each bombardment.

And the islands can't be bypassed because they do control the shipping lanes in the narrow South China Seas.

It should be straightforward for China to surge enough forces for temporary air superiority, given the constrained waters of the SCS and how the islands are only 700km from the Paracel islands or 1000km from Hainan.

Then how much airlift or sealift would be required to place some surveillance and air defence assets? And remember the bases can still refuel seaplanes or jets even with minimal infrastructure.

The scenario I describe involves a "strategic surprise" attack where China has yet to install any forces (SAMs, fighters etc) onto the islands, and it is in such a scenario where the islands are bombarded.

After that situation, the attacking force will then move their formidable naval forces into the SCS wholesale and occupy the bombarded islands with only small token forces of infantry while the naval forces carry out missile and air strikes against Chinese forces closer to the mainland or on the mainland's coast, while also denying Chinese forces from resupplying and rebuilding the islands -- and if the Chinese forces did want to resupply the islands it would have to fight through the opfor's naval fleet parked right in the SCS between the Chinese mainland and the island bases.



The trajectory of how such a struggle will occur very much will depend on the degree of strategic surprise each side has and how fast each side will be able to move to consolidate their position or to repel the opposing side's forces.
 

Blitzo

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But the devil is in the details again.

1) how would the US realistically expect to build up enough forces in the region to risk open conflict without China noticing and deploying counter forces?

For the US to try openly attacking Chinese assets and forces would require at least 3 carrier battle groups it not more.

Any fewer and they risk getting instantly overwhelmed and obliterated by the inevitable Chinese counter strike to any US surprise attack.

If the US did assemble 3+ CSGs in the SCS, half the PLAN would also be deployed in the SCS to monitor them, with all PLAAF strike wings on high alert.

Any such gathering of force and corresponding political tension would also likely trigger Chinese forward deployment scenarios where sufficient air and missile forces are forward deployed to the islands to make them fully capable of defending themselves and hitting back at attackers.

It wouldn’t be a surprise attack but a full on pitched battle.

2) even if for the sake of argument we say the US somehow managed to pull off complete surprise and hit the islands in a surprise attack and then rushed past to form an effective blockade of the islands.

That would mean the USN will have to give up its biggest asset of mobility.

If they move out of the area, the Chinese would be able to reinforce and forward deploy forces on those islands.

So the USN is stuck guarding those islands, which they will have to keep bombing, since they are essentially giant construction sites with more than enough materials and machinery and trained workers to quickly repair any damage their bombing will do to key infrastructure.

That means the Chinese will know where the USN will be, and can just send waves after waves of missiles at them from standoff range. It will be little different from them having actually occupied the islands.

3) even if the USN can withstand that kind of attack, what is the end game? Those islands are not going anywhere, and the Chinese workers there can live off the sea to a large extent.

The Chinese can and will turn the conflict into one of attrition, with China having by far the shorter logistical chain. Able to maintain attacks pretty much indefinitely.

Even if we assume 100% intercept rates, it won’t be long before the USN fleet stands running out of missiles.

The USN would need to pretty much entirely deploy to this conflict to have 3 carriers on station at all times going by the 3s rule.

Even if we take the extremely silly position that no USN ships gets lost in all that saturation missile attack, just how long could the US sustain that kind of long range deployment and extreme munitions expenditure?


1: I think this is the most valid reason for why such an outcome is unlikely, because if the USN does deploy 3 CSGs or an equivalent into the westpac near the SCS, China will likely have their forces on high alert too, and it would likely have been preceded by months of strategic tension if not tip offs from intelligence services that an attack was likely. So I find it very unlikely for China to be caught with their pants down.


2: "mobility" is relative imo. The USN forces that will be deployed in the SCS will technically be "fixed" within that theatre in a strategic sense, but the ships themselves will of course be very much mobile tactically and operationally speaking. Of course, the sheer fact that the USN ships will be in the SCS does confer certain ISR advantages to the Chinese side for their strike goals, but otoh deploying in the SCS also gives the USN side a much superior strike capability in terms of payload/range/sortie rate equivalent against Chinese targets on the mainland, compared to if they were operating outside of the first island chain.

The difference between such a situation and a situation where Chinese forces were able to hold and reinforce the islands and keep the USN multiple hundreds of km away from Chinese shores, imo is very significant.


3: regarding the islands, I expect the US goal would not be to use them as air bases, but rather to destroy their purpose as listening posts, to rip up the air strips, and to occupy the islands with a small force of infantry while holding sea control with naval and air superiority in the SCS overall.

As for what the overall strategic or political goal of such a conflict may be, we could come up with any number of scenarios depending on how aggressive we want to dial each side's intentions to and how competent each side is, which obviously goes for any discussion of a hypothetical conflict scenario between China and the US. The biggest deterrence China has against low level conflict scenarios is that every side knows a low level conflict can quickly snowball into a larger all out war where the political and strategic goals of both sides is likely to be unattainable.

The purpose of my example was not to say that such an eventuality is likely, but rather that the islands themselves are very much vulnerable to certain strategic scenarios and will likely remain so in the foreseeable future until the Chinese air and naval forces become larger and more capable and more able to project a constant, high level presence in the SCS 24/7.
 

Blitzo

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Coming back to my chess analogy, the value of the SCS islands is to decrease any opponent's options while increasing China's options.

The islands themselves are vulnerable, but their value lies in flexibility:

- If an enemy attacks the islands with limited forces, the islands have sufficient defense to supply and coordinate a limited naval engagement in the region.

- If an enemy attacks with overwhelming forces, the islands buy the Chinese forces enough time to prepare its mainland defenses.

- If an enemy tries to bypass the islands, they can be used to disrupt enemy lines and inflict major punishment.

- During peace time, the islands can serve as economic and law-enforcement centers for the exploitation of SCS resources.

This all depends on whether the islands are armed at the onset of hostilities imo. If they are attacked without any meaningful armament (like right now), i.e.: lacking SAMs, fighters etc, then their value is less than what you describe.

It means a more limited force will be able to mission kill the islands, and an overwhelming force will be able to remove them from the game altogether while using only a fraction of their force.

A single DDG fully loaded with cruise missiles will probably be able to mission kill all three of the major islands as they currently are, and from there it will be an easy job to send heliborne infantry to occupy the islands and pacify whatever survivors remain on the islands, knowing they have full air and naval superiority.
 

Jiang ZeminFanboy

Senior Member
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I doubt single DDG will even do sth against one island not to mention more. People overestimate the power of cruise missiles what the US tomahawk strike at Syria shown.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
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The scenario I describe involves a "strategic surprise" attack where China has yet to install any forces (SAMs, fighters etc) onto the islands, and it is in such a scenario where the islands are bombarded.

After that situation, the attacking force will then move their formidable naval forces into the SCS wholesale and occupy the bombarded islands with only small token forces of infantry while the naval forces carry out missile and air strikes against Chinese forces closer to the mainland or on the mainland's coast, while also denying Chinese forces from resupplying and rebuilding the islands -- and if the Chinese forces did want to resupply the islands it would have to fight through the opfor's naval fleet parked right in the SCS between the Chinese mainland and the island bases.



The trajectory of how such a struggle will occur very much will depend on the degree of strategic surprise each side has and how fast each side will be able to move to consolidate their position or to repel the opposing side's forces.

I would judge a scenario where the SCS islands are caught out by "strategic surprise" as almost certainly impossible.

Hence part of the reason why the islands currently are left unarmed.
 

Richard Santos

Captain
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The islands by themselves can’t be sufficiently armed so as to become even fancifully considered impervious to a surprise attack, unless it were to receive 24/7 AWAC cover and standing fighter patrol.

If there is really no warning of an attack, the assets on the islands will take critical damage and the islands will probably be rendered ineffective in the short run. But the problem is there is really no irreplaceable assets on the island, and unless the attacker maintains a presence on or around the island, the Chinese can repair and replace the assets and put the island back in operation within a few days.

If the attacker brings assets with him to follow up the surprise attack, then that would spoil the surprise.
 
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Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
I doubt single DDG will even do sth against one island not to mention more. People overestimate the power of cruise missiles what the US tomahawk strike at Syria shown.

An small island on which high value assets has to concentrate is different from a country in which regular and guerilla forces are intermingled, and where it is not all together clear what assets are really important either physically or psychologically.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
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The islands by themselves can’t be sufficiently armed so as to become even fancifully considered impervious to a surprise attack, unless it were to receive 24/7 AWAC cover and standing fighter patrol.

If there is really no warning of an attack, the assets on the islands will take critical damage and the islands will probably be rendered ineffective in the short run. But the problem is there is really no irreplaceable assets on the island, and unless the attacker maintains a presence on or around the island, the Chinese can repair and replace the assets and put the island back in operation within a few days.

If the attacker brings assets with him to follow up the surprise attack, then that would spoil the surprise.

The islands don't have to be impervious to attack.

But cheap short-range point defence assets (like the Tor/Pantsir) are on the winning side of the defence versus offensive cost curve.
 
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