China's SCS Strategy Thread

Jeff Head

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Registered Member
The reclamation is on top of reefs and shoals that provide a foundational structure.

The bunkers could be set into those...or done up in most of the other ways you mention.

I did not see any of this obviously being done during the months of construction.

it does not mean that they were not done...just that we did not see it.

As I say...in the future if they station aircraft there...and not just rotate them temporarily through there...it is a good bet that somewhere there they have the fuel bunkers to support them.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Unfounded, unproven, and unwarranted delcarations about the ROC surrendering and the PRC controlling clear out to the 2nd Island Chain as a result is not only unwarranted...it is unwanted here on SD.

It is properly viewed as flame bait and will not be tolerated.

This is a professional Defense Forum. Read the rules Ultra, any more of this will lead to a suspension.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION.
 

bluewater2012

Junior Member
Want to share this news, it is an couple months old but I don't think anyone has posted this yet.

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原标题:温哥华现美国制地图 显示南海属于中国

温哥华市面近日出现由美国百年老字号的地图绘制公司Rand McNally制作的1947年版的地图,该地图将不少南海岛礁标明主权属于中国。

当 地时间5月24日出版的加拿大《明报》发自温哥华的报道称,近日,温哥华旧货摊出售一本1947年版本的《Collier's World Atlas and Gazetteer》的地图兼地理词典,由于是旧版图书,品相有点破烂,内里的地图也不像现代地图那样色彩缤纷,几乎无人问津。

该 词典中收录的一幅地图由Rand McNally公司绘制,其题目为《中国、法属印度、暹罗、及韩国的大众地图》 (Popular Map of China, French Indochina, Siam, and Korea) 。地图将中国、越南、与泰国并列在一起,故此南海也包含在内。内中地图对中国南海岛礁有详细描述,部分岛礁更明确标明主权属于中国。

更有意思的是,报道称,地图在Paracel Islands(中方称西沙群岛)名字之下,特别加入(China)标签,显示地图绘制者将“西沙群岛”列入中国版图之内。

出版该词典的1947年,在历史上是颇为微妙的一年,也可能是中国及美国关系有史以来最为密切的一年。第二次世界大战刚刚结束。战时中、美两国是盟国,共同应对同一个敌人,抗击日本的侵略。而且在1947年,冷战还没有开打。

据 悉,绘制该地图的Rand McNally是一家超过百年的老字号公司,1856年由William Rand创办,两年后Andrew McNally受聘加盟,1868年两人合组Rand McNally & Co.。该公司一直是美国地图绘制业的中流砥柱,在地图绘制界的声誉无出其右。

该地图集内收录了另外一幅菲律宾及南沙岛礁的地图,也是由Rand McNally绘制。报道称,虽然美国与菲律宾的关系一贯密切,但该地图绘制者对南沙岛礁所标记的6个名字,没有一个是菲律宾所起的名字。

报 道称,中国对南海岛礁的主权声索一直可以追溯至帆船年代。“中业岛”的中部据悉有一座清代建立的华人庙宇(Joss House)。台湾军官张振国在1956年巡航南沙群岛,其后写成《南沙行》一书,内里记述:“太平岛与中业岛上,都有一座土地庙……中间供养着石质的土 地神像,虽经多年风雨侵蚀,而且剥杂模糊,而其雕塑的衣冠形式仍隐约可见,其南威、南钥、西月等岛均有类似小庙。”显示南沙岛礁与中国的历史渊源深厚。
报道引述学者郑海麟考证,1933年后日本侵占“南沙”岛礁,将其纳入版图。二战中,日本战败,根据《开罗宣言》与《波茨坦公告》,日本必须将那些通过武力占据的岛礁归还中国,因此中国对这些岛礁拥有无可争辩的主权。

报 道还引述维多利亚大学历史教授普赖斯(John Price)指出,战后在定出各岛礁主权细节时,美国的谈判代表当时为了不想承认中国的新政权,在边界划分上一直采取回避策略。当美国需要利用冲绳(琉 球) 以及其他太平洋岛屿作为军事基地时,在主权从属问题上却毫不含糊。他认为,美国当年制造的不公义所触发的连环效应延续至今。

Google translate:
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Map under Paracel Islands (Xisha China says) name, in particular to join (China) tab to display the map carvers will “Paracel Islands” included in the territory of China.

Original title: Vancouver now American system map shows the South China Sea belongs to China

Vancouver market recently appeared in the United States a hundred years old Rand McNally mapping company produced 1947 version of the map, the map will be a lot of the South China Sea islands and reefs marked sovereignty belongs to China.

Local time May 24 issue of Canada, “Ming Pao Daily News” reported that from the bottom of Vancouver recently, Vancouver garage sale to sell a 1947 edition of “Collier’s World Atlas and Gazetteer” map and geographical dictionary, because it is the old books, goods with a little ragged, the maps are not inside the modern map as colorful, almost nobody cares.

The dictionary included a map drawn by Rand McNally Company, its title is “Chinese, French India, Siam, and South Korea’s public map” (Popular Map of China, French Indochina, Siam, and Korea). Maps will be China, Vietnam, and Thailand tied together, so the South China Sea is also included. Within the map of the South China Sea islands and reefs are described in detail, and some reefs are more clearly marked sovereignty belongs to China.

Even more interesting is, the report said, the map Paracel Islands (Xisha China says) under the name, in particular to join (China) tab to display the map carvers will “Paracel Islands” included in the territory of China.

Publication of the dictionary in 1947, is rather delicate in the history of the year, it may be the relationship between China and the United States most closely ever year. World War II had just ended. During the war, the United States and China are allies to jointly cope with an enemy against Japanese aggression. And in 1947, the Cold War has not yet start.

It is reported that draw the map of Rand McNally is a more than a century old company, founded in 1856 by the William Rand, two years after joining hired Andrew McNally, 1868 the two were joint Rand McNally & Co .. The company has been a mainstay of the US mapping industry reputation second to none in the mapping industry.

Also within this atlas contains a map of the Philippines and the Nansha Islands, is drawn by Rand McNally. Reported that, although the relationship between the United States and the Philippines has always been close, but the mapmakers of the Nansha Islands and the marked six names, no one is the Philippines from the name.

It reported that China’s sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and reefs of the sound can be traced to the cable has been sailing era. Central “in the industry island” It is reported that there is a Chinese temple built in the Qing Dynasty (Joss House). Taiwanese officer Zhang Zhenguo cruise Nansha Islands in 1956, followed by written as “Nansha line,” a book written inside: “Taiping Island and the industry on the island, there is an Earth Temple …… intermediate support the stone statue of land, despite years of wind and rain, but also stripped miscellaneous vague, and dressed in the form of their sculpture is still looming, the South, South-key, months, etc. West Island have similar temple. “display Nansha Islands and China’s deep history.

The report quoted research scholar Zheng Hailin, 1933, after the Japanese occupation, “Nansha” reefs, which was included in the territory. World War II, Japan was defeated, according to the “Cairo Declaration” and the “Potsdam Proclamation,” Japan must be those reefs occupied by force returned to China, so China has indisputable sovereignty over these islands and reefs.

The report also quoted a history professor at the University of Victoria Price (John Price) noted that after the war when all reefs sovereignty fix the details of the negotiations on behalf of the United States at that time in order not to recognize China’s new regime on the border demarcation has been evasive tactics. When the United States needs to take advantage of Okinawa (Ryukyu) and other Pacific islands as a military base on the sovereignty issue is unambiguous slave. He believes that when the United States made a chain effect triggered injustice continues today.
 

siegecrossbow

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Two U.S. B52 strategic bombers flew near artificial Chinese-built islands in the South China Sea this week and were contacted by Chinese ground controllers but continued their mission undeterred, the Pentagon said on Thursday.

The latest U.S. patrol in the disputed South China Sea occurred in advance of President Barack Obama's visit to the region next week to attend Asia-Pacific summits where he is expected the reassert Washington's commitment to freedom of navigation and overflight in the area.

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5 trillion in global trade passes every year, and the United States has said it will continue conducting patrols to assure unimpeded passage. Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Taiwan have rival claims in the region.

In the latest mission, which occurred overnight on Nov. 8-9, the bombers flew "in the area" of the Spratly Islands but did not come within the 12-nautical-mile zones that China claims as territory around islands it has built in the chain, said Commander Bill Urban, a Pentagon spokesman.

"The B-52s were on a routine mission in the SCS (South China Sea)," taking off from and returning to Guam, Urban said.

Chinese ground controllers contacted the bombers but the aircraft continued their mission unabated, Urban said.

"We conduct B-52 flights in international air space in that part of the world all the time," Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook told a news briefing earlier on Thursday.

Last month, a U.S. warship challenged territorial limits around one of China's man-made islands in the Spratly archipelago with a so-called freedom-of-navigation patrol, the most significant U.S. challenge yet to territorial limits China claims around its new islands. China reacted angrily to the patrol.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said he did not know whether the South China Sea would be on the formal agenda at any of the three Asia summits that Obama will attend but added that it would be “on the minds and lips” of world leaders who gather there.

Obama's first stop will be Manila for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum summit, where Chinese President Xi Jinping will also be present. The U.S. president will then go to Kuala Lumpur for ASEAN and East Asia summits.

"We are quite concerned about protecting freedom of navigation, the free flow of commerce in the South China Sea," Earnest told reporters. "And we're going to continue to encourage all parties, big and small, to resolve their differences diplomatically and to not try to use their comparative size and strength to intimidate their neighbors."

In an apparent show of U.S. resolve, Obama will take part in what the White House described as “an event that showcases U.S. maritime security assistance to the Philippines". U.S. officials did not elaborate.

But in September, Navy Admiral Harry Harris, head of the U.S. Pacific Command, visited the National Coast Watch Center, a facility at the Philippines coast guard headquarters that Washington has helped Manila build to improve its ability to monitor developments in the South China Sea.
 

siegecrossbow

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The USS Lassen, which carried out a freedom of navigation operation in the South China Sea on October 27. On October 27 the US Navy conducted a "freedom of navigation" (FON) operation through the South China Sea. The move, which came after months of deliberations among the White House and the Pentagon, was meant to assert that the US did not recognize Beijing's extensive maritime claims in the region.

The US sent the USS Lassen within 12 nautical miles of China's artificially constructed Subi Reef in the Spratly Islands, along with an accompaniment of two surveillance aircraft.

But the message that the Pentagon hoped to send to China through the FON may have been drastically undercut by pressure from the White House, Josh Rogin
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for Bloomberg View.

Instead of having carrying out an FON operation, it now appears that the Pentagon's actions actually fell under a different legal category. The US operation was aimed at establishing "innocent passage," and not freedom of navigation in the area.

There's a crucial difference between these two concepts.
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to the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), FON operations "are legal exercises to reinforce the United States’ — and in this case the overwhelming majority of the international community’s — interpretations of international maritime law."

These operations have a confrontational purpose to them. As the CSIS report notes, FON operations are "intended to challenge maritime claims that the United States considers excessive under international law."

The FON operation was meant to feature a US Navy vessel sailing within 12 miles of China's man-made islands in the South China Sea while being followed by US surveillance planes. That distance was meant to challenge China's claim of having nautical territory that extends 12 miles out from any of its territories in the South China Sea.

But as Rogin
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, the White House insisted that the Pentagon refrain from carrying out more robust aspects of the FON operation. The Lassen was not allowed to "turn on sensors or fly its helicopters, actions that military experts say would have made clearer that the US was conducting a freedom of navigation operation," according to Rogin.

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for The National Interest that while carrying out the operation, the surveillance planes trailing the US ship stayed outside of China's declared 12-mile nautical boundary. This less-confrontational moves indicates that the entire operation was not actually a FON, but actually what's referred to in maritime law as "innocent passage."

Innocent passage does not carry nearly the same weight as a FON. Again,
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to CSIS, "nnocent passage under international law is the right of civilian and military vessels to peacefully sail through the territorial waters of a foreign country as long as they do not perform activities not directly related to transit (including military exercises and intelligence gathering)."

As such, the US's actions are aimed more at establishing innocent passage in the area than at establishing freedom of navigation. And, if China does indeed regard the action as innocent passage, than the entire exercise may end up bolstering Beijing's view that its maritime claims are acceptable.

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that the "demonstration value could be thrown dangerously into reverse if Beijing drew the conclusion that the conduct of innocent passage amounts to customary acceptance of a de jure territorial sea around Subi Reef and other submerged features or low-tide elevations under China’s control in the Spratlys."

If that the case, the White House's pressure on the Pentagon may have undercut the military's ability to send a strong message about the US's position on China's claims in the area, with the result that Beijing won't be convinced to change its behavior in the disputed region.

As CSIS
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, the US has promised future FON operations throughout the South China Sea. The Obama administration has also urged regional allies to conduct their own FON operations as well.
 
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