China's military is wasteful

Roger604

Roger604

Senior Member
In the past few years, PLA personnel reduced by 200,000. This is still not enough. Russia defends a territory 2x the size of China, and they only have a budget 1/8 the size of the Chinese budget. China should try to emulate Russia's efficiency in this regard. The main reason for the difference is that Russia has a declared policy of using nuclear weapons in any border conflict, so it does need that many standing border troops.

If China stops reiterating the "no first use" policy (even if it doesn't explicitly recant it), it can greatly reduce the number of personnel. By introducing more modern equipment to the Rapid Reaction forces, I think the Army can be cut down to 1 million soldiers from 1.4 million currently. With better implementation of modern policing equipment and tactics, the PAP can be cut down by half to 300,000 or less.

This would be a great benefit to the country as a whole to better utilize resources. I fear, though, that internecine rivalries would be an obstacle against further reducing the Army. Nonetheless, the Party has firm control over the military so if they recognize the need, they can implement it. The recent shedding of 200,000 finished in 2005, they should start another round soon (in 2008).
 
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Ryz05

Junior Member
Roger604 said:
In the past few years, PLA personnel reduced by 200,000. This is still not enough. Russia defends a territory 2x the size of China, and they only have a budget 1/8 the size of the Chinese budget. China should try to emulate Russia's efficiency in this regard. The main reason for the difference is that Russia has a declared policy of using nuclear weapons in any border conflict, so it does need that many standing border troops.

If China stops reiterating the "no first use" policy (even if it doesn't explicitly recant it), it can greatly reduce the number of personnel. By introducing more modern equipment to the Rapid Reaction forces, I think the Army can be cut down to 1 million soldiers from 1.4 million currently. With better implementation of modern policing equipment and tactics, the PAP can be cut down by half to 300,000 or less.

This would be a great benefit to the country as a whole to better utilize resources. I fear, though, that internecine rivalries would be an obstacle against further reducing the Army. Nonetheless, the Party has firm control over the military so if they recognize the need, they can implement it. The recent shedding of 200,000 finished in 2005, they should start another round soon (in 2008).
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Russia shouldn't declare the use of nuclear weapons in any border conflict, because that will cause much unnecessary destruction and is a danger to the world. Russia should be more concerned about the world than themselves.

China should continue its no-first-use policy to show that it's a peaceful country. I think the PLA is doing a great job in reducing forces in a piecemeal fashion and as better military equipments come into service, the army size can be reduced, while the air-force and navy can be expanded. The reduction is not so much about being efficient as it is about meeting security needs. China is surrounded by 14 countries, so it needs a large size military. Advances in technology is the only way to ensure a smaller, more efficient military.
 
Roger604

Roger604

Senior Member
Ryz05 said:
Russia should be more concerned about the world than themselves.

China should continue its no-first-use policy to show that it's a peaceful country.
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I fail to see why China (or Russia for that matter) should sacrifice its national interests for the benefit of "the world." Name me one nation that sacrifices its national interest for the benefit of "the world." Nobody else has this "no first use policy," so China is giving and giving, but getting nothing in return.

I also fail to see why not having a no first use policy is less than peaceful. Nobody else has this policy... does that mean China's the only "peaceful country" in the world? :roll: China should forget about trying to bend over backward in a vain attempt to get "international approval". It's clearly not working, and its a drain on national resources because otherwise, we can shed a lot more personnel.
 
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Ryz05

Junior Member
Roger604 said:
I fail to see why China (or Russia for that matter) should sacrifice its national interests for the benefit of "the world." Name me one nation that sacrifices its national interest for the benefit of "the world." Nobody else has this "no first use policy," so China is giving and giving, but getting nothing in return.
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The use of nuclear weapons is no doubt a danger to the world, because of radioactive fallout. Russia should not use nuclear weapons because of some petty border conflict, because that's just selfish.

Roger604 said:
I also fail to see why not having a no first use policy is less than peaceful. Nobody else has this policy... does that mean China's the only "peaceful country" in the world? :roll: China should forget about trying to bend over backward in a vain attempt to get "international approval". It's clearly not working, and its a drain on national resources because otherwise, we can shed a lot more personnel.
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China should not back out of its words about no-first-use, or else it harms credibility. In the best case, it should just make it ambiguous about whether to first use nuclear weapons. It is not about gaining international approval as it is about ensuring security and easing suspicions. The reduction of personnel is only possible with introduction of more advanced technology and better power projection capabilities. Also, the air-force and navy should be expanded, though the army could be reduced and more responsibilities placed on the militia and the armed-police.
 
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flyzies

Junior Member
Troop reductions is a very political issue these days. Often the central govt think about the social issues of society when making these decisions. For eg. the troops being cut might not be able to find a job somewhere else, causing a surge in unemployment...and this brings social instability, something the communist party is desperately trying to avoid/keep under control.

In some ways i think, CCP is using the military as an employment tool.
 
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fishhead

Banned Idiot
It's a legacy of Mao's stupidity. Most of Chinese today agree that not-first-use policy is obsolete now and PLA's strategy has shifted already. In the past the PLA's strategic review already talked in the tone of using nuclear weapons, today it's becoming more explicit.

Chinese nuke weapon stock will increase significantly in the coming days, espically more delivery vehicles will enter the service(new SSBNs will add that number in many times), the old policy has to be abandoned. First to establish MAD with a single country, then expand it to the combined countries/country bloc. To do that, you don't need the equal number of warheads of the rivals, just enough to wipe them out in any nuclear exchange.

I think now for China it only needs a good timing to declare abandoning the old stupid policy. Nuclear weapons should be considered in any cases, under any scenario.
 
Gollevainen

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
No no no...Whats this? Old members are opening threads with some misty and vague shadow of some meaningfull issue is used to hide some sort of chauvisit boasting in the manners of "we need to start kick some ass"...

Yeas you can discuss about chinese force reductions, its neccerity and different methods to do so but do not even dare to continue this unrelated politically motivated sidekicks. Disobeying this will mean consequenses no matter how old and experienced members are involved.

Golly
 
Roger604

Roger604

Senior Member
Hi Golly, actually I was quoting a senior PLA officer giving a lecture at National Defense University in 2004. I didn't just make this up to sound chauvinistic.

Here are the full videos of the lecture (in Chinese)

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ABC78

ABC78

Junior Member
flyzies is right espiaclly with peasant revolts on the rise. The massive demobolization of troops in an economy that already has 10% unemployment could lead to more problems. Look at Iraq when the entire army and police force were disbanded after the fall of Bagdad. Those who were laid off join the mitlias. China does not need armed and militarly organized revolts.

Also the Russian Army does not defend Russia it's Nuclear arsenal does. The Russian Army couldn't crush the Cheyian sepritist and a significant portion of the Russian Military goes unpaid while it's surface and sub fleets rust in the ports.
 
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fishhead

Banned Idiot
Roger604 said:
Hi Golly, actually I was quoting a senior PLA officer giving a lecture at National Defense University in 2004. I didn't just make this up to sound chauvinistic.

Here are the full videos of the lecture (in Chinese)
Click to expand...

Quite a few PLA generals publicly advocate the using of nuclear weapons in recent years, and nobody is in opposition of it. Considering PLA has a strict discipline regarding to the individual officer's view, especially expressed in public domin, what they said is definitely not just their personal views.
 
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