China's Defense Spending Thread

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Yeah and China can do that, and see itself on the same route taken by the USSR. I have no idea what is all the clamour for a sudden increase in defence budget for. It is not like the all 3 branches of the Chinese military can use up all that fund in a single year, nor could the domestic industry supply the amount of services or hardware that money would entitled.
As of now the gradual increase suits the pace of China's military growth quite fine. 12B accounts for at least 100-200 new fighters jets, a near thousand more combat vehicles, 6-10 new ships of varying size and a untold number of firearms and uniforms plus all other miscellaneous omitted here.

That’s a complete false equivalency though. Soviets had a (much) smaller economy & industry than their rivals and their budget was huge to begin with. Like, even bigger than America today huge.

China has a larger economy & industry but it’s military is the reverse, it’s tiny compared to it’s rivals. Not even as much as a NATO state let alone US itself. It could afford to expand it’s military 100% and still have less.

Now as for why they chose the lower the budget, it’s probably because the trade war is going well, so they believe they can keep America in line economically and prevent a Cold War from happening.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
That’s a complete false equivalency though. Soviets had a (much) smaller economy & industry than their rivals and their budget was huge to begin with. Like, even bigger than America today huge.

China has a larger economy & industry but it’s military is the reverse, it’s tiny compared to it’s rivals. Not even as much as a NATO state let alone US itself. It could afford to expand it’s military 100% and still have less.

Now as for why they chose the lower the budget, it’s probably because the trade war is going well, so they believe they can keep America in line economically and prevent a Cold War from happening.

Agree China should increase the defense spending because it spend the lowest percentage of GDP compare to US or even European countries. Most Nations spend roughly 3% of GDP toward defense outlay. China spend only 1.5% of the GDP to Defense spending. US spend 4% of GDP. Even accounting for different method of counting the spending China probably spend only 2% of GDP

I can understand that in the past China want to commit more money toward economic development becasue of the dire need to improve people living standard and the backwardness of the industrial base But those constraints does not exists anymore Chinese GDP per capita is close to $10,000 that is close to the living standard of Eastern European countries, Brazil etc. The Chinese now dominated some sector of technologies like wireless etc In fact machinery and electrical equipment now consists the largest part of the export

As to why well now that US consider China as mortal enemy that should says it all. Because we are entering new cold war

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Can the US win the new cold war with China? Not without risking a nuclear war

America is using flimsy means to confront the strongest adversary it has ever faced, and needs to ask itself if it is willing to fight a hot war to maintain its position in Asia

Hugh White
Updated: Wednesday, 6 Mar, 2019 2:24pm

Declaring a new cold war against China is easy, but working out how to fight it and win it is much harder. While almost everyone in Washington these days seems to agree that resisting China’s seemingly insatiable ambition is now America’s highest strategic priority, the nature and scale of the task is still enveloped in uncertainty.

No one seems too worried about this, however, because they assume that a new cold war with China is going to be easy to win.

The few attempts we have seen to formulate a strategy to against China, from think-tankers’ policy papers to Congress’ recent Asia Reassurance Initiative Act (ARIA), radiate confidence that America can defeat China’s challenge by doing just a little bit more of the things it has been doing in Asia for decades.

The talk is of closer links to allies, more active partnerships with friends, more military deployments and increased economic and people-to-people links. But this is just what America has been saying and doing for years, and none of it has worked to stop China’s growing influence.

America need not go to war with China to defeat its challenge, but it must convince Beijing that it is willing and able to do so

By expecting to win this way, today’s new cold warriors massively underestimate China. That is a huge mistake, reflecting major misunderstandings of China’s power, ambitions and resolve.

When these are properly understood, it becomes clear that America faces a huge and daunting task if it is really serious about confronting and containing China’s ambitions in East Asia. The new cold war could be just as hard and dangerous and costly as the old cold war was.

Let’s start by being clear what the contest is really about. US officials – like Vice-President Mike Pence in Munich recently – often talk as if America’s problem with China concerns specific Chinese policies, like its expansive maritime claims and predatory economic policies.

If so, success would simply mean convincing Beijing to abandon these policies, and then all will be well again.

But these specific issues are no more the real driver of US-China rivalry than the status of Danzig was the cause of the second world war. They are just the symptoms of a far bigger dispute with much greater stakes for both sides, over which of them dominates East Asia.

Very simply, America wants to remain East Asia’s preponderant power, and China wants to take its place.

This is a contest, then, between the world’s two most powerful states over the leadership of the world’s most prosperous and dynamic region. Compared to that, the disputes over maritime law or intellectual property dwindle to insignificance.


The second thing to understand is the strength of the Chinese resolve to win this contest. It springs from their deep sense of the kind of country China is. Americans tend still to see China as a poor, weak country – albeit one which has unexpectedly and temporarily struck it rich.

But the Chinese have never stopped thinking of themselves as a great power, and see their recent rise as the natural restoration of their traditional place at the apex of wealth and power. So while Americans see a US preponderance in Asia as natural and proper, the Chinese see it as unnatural, anachronistic – and insufferable.

To see how insufferable, recall Henry Kissinger’s acute observation many years ago that the US-China relationship is driven less by the two counties’ differences than by their similarities – especially their similar images of themselves as international actors.

Imagine how Americans would feel if China dominated the western hemisphere the way America has dominated East Asia. That gives some idea of how determined the Chinese are to push America out of its region and take its place.

The third thing to understand is China’s power. It is the strongest adversary America has ever faced, and getting steadily stronger. Like any country, the foundations of its power is its economy, which is already far bigger, relative to America’s, than the Soviet Union was at its height. Before long, it will almost certainly overtake America altogether.

Of course China has serious economic, political and social problems, but to assume that they will stop, let alone reverse, its rise to power is pure wishful thinking.

So is the assumption that China’s economic weight – and its fast-growing technological expertise – will not translate into formidable diplomatic weight and military power. Indeed they already have.

None of this means that China will soon “rule the world”. But it does make China a truly formidable adversary, and it raises deep questions about whether America can credibly expect to succeed in preserving the old US-led order in Asia in the face of China’s determination to overturn it.

Certainly nothing Washington has done even begins to look like a serious effort on the scale that will be required.

Congress’ ARIA, hailed by some as a powerful statement of US resolve, committed just US$1.5 billion a year to shoring up America’s position in Asia. By comparison, the war on terror is now estimated to have cost around US$1 billion a day since the September 11 terrorist attacks.

Nor is it just a matter of money. Like the old cold war, a contest with China over Asia will soon become, above all, a military contest. America need not go to war with China to defeat its challenge, but it must convince Beijing that it is willing and able to do so – just as it had to convince the Soviets of the same thing.

And that raises the ultimate question: is America so determined to contain China’s challenge and preserve its leadership in Asia that it is willing to fight a major war – quite possibly a nuclear war – to do so?

Because if it isn’t willing to do that, and if it can’t convince China of its willingness, then America will not win this new cold war. And if it is not going to win this contest, then it might be better not to begin it.

Hugh White is emeritus professor of strategic studies at the Australian National University
 
yes yes I read
History proves China's defense budget growth benefits the world
Updated 17:18, 06-Mar-2019
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In 2019, China's national defense expenditure increased by 7.5 percent compared with that in 2018. After double-digit growth for five consecutive years from 2011 to 2015, defense budget's increases have slowed to single digits since 2016 (7.6 percent in 2016, 7 percent in 2017, and 8.1 percent in 2018) due to the military reform.

What does growth mean? When hesitating on whether to believe the "China threat theory", people should look at Chinese military spending through a historical perspective.

China has to make efforts to strengthen its military capabilities, just like late students have to make up his missing lessons. The modernization of the People's Liberation Army of China (PLA) was almost stagnant since Sino-Soviet relations deteriorated in the early 1960s.

The following "Cultural Revolution" also eroded the PLA's military readiness and organizational integrity. Between 1979 and 1996, as China shifted its focus to domestic reform and economic construction, the PLA and China's defense industry experienced an even more difficult time.

During the 15-year budget tightening period, the PLA and defense industry were forced to tighten their belts, canceled most of its procurement and R&D programs of the modern weapon system and froze the scales of personnel and training spending.

The modernization process of the Chinese military was lagged behind not only other permanent members of the UN Security Council but also many neighbors in the whole 1990s.

Most of the main combat systems in the PLA were obsolete, while the level of living, training and military readiness dropped dramatically. The budget starvation also destroyed many military factories.

At that time, there was a famous saying that it is better to sell tea eggs than to build missiles. In the 1996 Taiwan Strait crisis and the 1999 South China Sea collision incident, the PLA was still equipped with weapons of the 1950s.

In this regard, one of the main aims of China's current military spending growth is to compensate for the historical gap. The PLA not only needs to purchase modern weapon systems for the services but also invests in training and exercises to make the troops better adapt to this new equipment.

In addition to improving combat effectiveness, Chinese military must also enhance the living conditions and incomes of its troops.

Compared with the past, China has played an increasingly responsible role on the global stage. The PLA has taken an increasing number of responsibilities to provide public security products for the international community.

China has contributed the largest number of UN peacekeeping troops and the number of Chinese peacekeeping troops exceeds the total number of other permanent members of the UN Security Council.

The PLA has joined the Multi-national Somali anti-piracy joint escort operation since 2008. In the past 10 years, the Chinese Navy has sent 31 escort fleets to the Gulf of Aden and waters off Somalia and escorted 3,400 foreign ships.

The escort fleets also escorted ships transporting chemical weapons out of Syria and delivering Humanitarian supplies to Somalia, carried out missions such as the search and rescue of Malaysia Airlines, and emergency water supply for the Maldives, and urgently evacuated 683 overseas Chinese and 279 foreign citizens from the Yemen War.

Whether a country would pose a military threat to other countries depends on its foreign and defense policies, rather than how much it will increase its defense spending.
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
That’s a complete false equivalency though. Soviets had a (much) smaller economy & industry than their rivals and their budget was huge to begin with. Like, even bigger than America today huge.

China has a larger economy & industry but it’s military is the reverse, it’s tiny compared to it’s rivals. Not even as much as a NATO state let alone US itself. It could afford to expand it’s military 100% and still have less.

Now as for why they chose the lower the budget, it’s probably because the trade war is going well, so they believe they can keep America in line economically and prevent a Cold War from happening.

It is not about the size of the budget vs that of the economy, but rather it is whether the money spent on the military would be better well spent on other more pressing matters. There is no false equivalency here.
What is a false equivalency though is the claim that China's military is smaller than that of its rivals, that notion is so ridiculous it is laughable. The idea that a military's size is dictated vis a vis the percentage of GDP spend is completely false as it ignores subtle differences like that of standard of living and purchasing power, in which case China's 1.5% is just as good as 3%.The only true rival that is large than China is the US but the discrepancy is so great that China can spend its entire national budget on defense and still would not come close to the gap anyway.
Just because China is spending 1.5 % on the military means that it can just double that amount willy-nilly, there are other potential issues in China that would see that 150 Billion dollars be better spent on, one would be the future welfare issue. With an aging population inevitable and an pension system under ever greater pressure, china will have to dole out ever greater sums of money to address it. Another would be the future maintenance of public infrastructure systems which over its lifetime will cost just as much if not greater than the sum it took to construct them in the first place, that was the mistake that the US did. It left its infrastructure to rot and it hollowed out the rest of its departments to shore up the military.
While I agree that the lower budget has some its roots in the trade dispute, I believe the reasons to be completely different. The trade war has left its marks on China regardless, whether or not it had left deeper ones in the US is another matter entirely, but it will be wise for China to set aside a certain sum to buff up critical industries in any current or future problems. But solving these problems will go along way to further China's power than any military budget can do.
 
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gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
I also think that China should continue investing in its own infrastructure. That will allow China to grow further and be able to invest more in the military in the future if they need it. Right now China is able to defend itself perfectly fine with the military budget they have. They are building strategic weapons like the DF-41 and also a huge navy. They are closing the gap with Western weapons technology but it is still too early to massively produce certain weapon systems which aren't as advanced. China is making huge investments as it is. They are really focused in the investments they do. This enables them to have much less military spending waste than the US.

With regards to their GDP/capita. China does not want to merely get to the level of a Brazil or something like that. They want to catch up with the more developed economies. They have the drive to do it too. It is a good thing they don't derail their efforts like Brazil or Argentina did in the post WW2 period. Those countries wasted tremendous amounts of money building a military that was mostly for show thus frittering out any chance they had to become a real economic powerhouse.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
HERE us the graph that show the defense spending as percentage of GDP. This graph is already adjusted for R&D, Weapon procurement etc
Even India spend larger percentage of GDP for defense
So China's defense spending is modest as percentage of GDP So I am not worry that China will follow Soviet Union which at one time spend 30% of Government spending on weapon NOT GDP

From CNN
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Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
Does anyone have any research/government publications or even just media/news links which talk about the following issue: how much of healthcare costs within the PLA is financed by the defense budget and how is financed outside it?
 

Jiang ZeminFanboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
If again we will see Chinese gdp spending with only few percent increase like last year I will be worried. Now I think Chinese defence spending felt below the 1.3% of GDP. Few years before it stayed at 1.3% GDP.
 

Akame

Junior Member
Registered Member
Is there a statement about the 2022 defense budget? What are your predictions for 2022?
 
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