China's Defense Spending Thread

PiSigma

"the engineer"
The linked post doesn't demonstrate that. It claims that military spending creates fewer jobs than spending in other sectors.
China is looking for growth, but also for other things, such as security.
Creates fewer jobs means less growth. Considering 1.4 billion people need jobs and social security, money spent on health and education will provide way more jobs and economic growth than on weapons. With strong economics, even military spending at 1% will give a strong army. Just look at Japan, arguably 2nd best navy in the world yet they spend 1% on military.
China doesn't want to bankrupt themselves like the USSR.
 

Klon

Junior Member
Registered Member
Creates fewer jobs means less growth.
This is not self evident.
Considering 1.4 billion people need jobs and social security, money spent on health and education will provide way more jobs and economic growth than on weapons. With strong economics, even military spending at 1% will give a strong army. Just look at Japan, arguably 2nd best navy in the world yet they spend 1% on military.
Is China in a position where 'arguably second best' is enough?
China doesn't want to bankrupt themselves like the USSR.
In the scenarios I presented, military expenditure as a percentage of GDP peaks at 3.5%, which is basically the present rate for the USA and lower than its rate for most of the past 70 years. You should also take a look at the numbers for the other countries I mentioned, for a reference.
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
This is not self evident.

Is China in a position where 'arguably second best' is enough?

In the scenarios I presented, military expenditure as a percentage of GDP peaks at 3.5%, which is basically the present rate for the USA and lower than its rate for most of the past 70 years. You should also take a look at the numbers for the other countries I mentioned, for a reference.
China has been much lower than 2nd best for a long time. And until they have the same GDP per capita as a developed nation they won't need to spend more.

There is a reason USA is in so much debt. It is because their economic growth can't keep up with military spending. Most countries spend 2% on military.
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This is all basic economic 101 stuff.
 
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Klon

Junior Member
Registered Member
China has been much lower than 2nd best for a long time. And until they have the same GDP per capita as a developed nation they won't need to spend more.
I don't see how the second sentence follows from anything.
There is a reason USA is in so much debt. It is because their economic growth can't keep up with military spending. Most countries spend 2% on military.
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What is the debt of the other countries I listed? It would be more accurate to say that most countries spend between 1% and 6% of GDP on the military.
This is all basic economic 101 stuff.
In general it may be, but your interpretation isn't.
 

2handedswordsman

Junior Member
Registered Member
nah,it isn't so simple and this doesn't explain why luxemburg has the sixth biggest debt in the world without having a single soldier at all."Das Kapital" has some answers about that,or pay attention to what CCP is doing.
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
I don't see how the second sentence follows from anything.

What is the debt of the other countries I listed? It would be more accurate to say that most countries spend between 1% and 6% of GDP on the military.

In general it may be, but your interpretation isn't.
When I say until they got GDP per capita at developed nation, it means until they caught up as a nation in wealth. When China reach 30-40k/person then they will have the luxury of spending more on military and not invest everything on development and improving the lives of the poor.

How many countries that are considered developed on that list do you see have over 2% spending? I see countries like Russia and Saudi with high spending, Russia is reducing military spending and Saudis never learned to budget. Then u got India and France, both in the 2% ballpark. Even south Korea only spends 2.7%.

China will grow defence budget organically. When the GDP per capita reach 30-40k then economy will naturally be double or triple of now and budget will grow with it.

Think of it this way, if China had 3.5% military budget 30 years ago, they were so poor then, what would they use for development? Their economy would not be where it is today. That is why Deng and Zhang reduced military budget in 80s and 90s to have money for development.

Also it adds to the China threat theory if China spends more. We know they are modernising, but you can argue they are being aggressive if they spend more.
 

Klon

Junior Member
Registered Member
When I say until they got GDP per capita at developed nation, it means until they caught up as a nation in wealth. When China reach 30-40k/person then they will have the luxury of spending more on military and not invest everything on development and improving the lives of the poor.
I understood what you were saying, I just don't think you've shown it to be true.
How many countries that are considered developed on that list do you see have over 2% spending? I see countries like Russia and Saudi with high spending, Russia is reducing military spending and Saudis never learned to budget. Then u got India and France, both in the 2% ballpark. Even south Korea only spends 2.7%.

China will grow defence budget organically. When the GDP per capita reach 30-40k then economy will naturally be double or triple of now and budget will grow with it.

Think of it this way, if China had 3.5% military budget 30 years ago, they were so poor then, what would they use for development? Their economy would not be where it is today. That is why Deng and Zhang reduced military budget in 80s and 90s to have money for development.
Here is the
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for the five countries I brought up. USA has the highest
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among large countries, Singapore the highest in Asia, South Korea went through the kind of development process that China is undergoing a few decades earlier and Israel is a developed country with relatively high growth. These examples are enough to disprove claims that military spending hurts growth and development.
Also it adds to the China threat theory if China spends more. We know they are modernising, but you can argue they are being aggressive if they spend more.
Going by what would accentuate the 'China threat theory' is probably the worst way for China to make decisions, because that framework was put in place by its opponents to limit China's options. Does the fact that military spending grew with the economy for the past twenty years and is much smaller than America's stop the regular 'Chinese military buildup' pieces?
The increase in spending I'm proposing would provide the stick, while other actions (diplomacy, negotiation, compromise, economic incentives) would be the carrot in China's foreign relations.
 

Klon

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's really quite simple: by pegging their military expenditure at 2%, China grows its military spending by growing its economy.
Of course economic growth is fundamental. See my above post for examples of countries where high military spending doesn't hurt growth. If China goes with a 2% of GDP cap, it won't reach the USA's nominal spending before 2050, and even later for the cumulative amount.
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
I understood what you were saying, I just don't think you've shown it to be true.

Here is the
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for the five countries I brought up. USA has the highest
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among large countries, Singapore the highest in Asia, South Korea went through the kind of development process that China is undergoing a few decades earlier and Israel is a developed country with relatively high growth. These examples are enough to disprove claims that military spending hurts growth and development.

Going by what would accentuate the 'China threat theory' is probably the worst way for China to make decisions, because that framework was put in place by its opponents to limit China's options. Does the fact that military spending grew with the economy for the past twenty years and is much smaller than America's stop the regular 'Chinese military buildup' pieces?
The increase in spending I'm proposing would provide the stick, while other actions (diplomacy, negotiation, compromise, economic incentives) would be the carrot in China's foreign relations.
Israel is a special case, they got enemies surrounding them. What needs to be looked at are large countries in growth mode that have high military budget. I can't really think of one. US didn't have a big budget until after WW2, by then they already had 50% of world economy.

Cold war period is not comparable IMO. China also had a high budget then. Post cold war, SK budget is very much in the 2% range... And that is with a crazy neighbour.
 
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