China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

[Hendrik_2000]

Each CSG have DDG/CG, so more than 200 VLS with SM3/6 missile.

Not going to be effective against HGV

 

[escobar]

Not going to be effective against HGV

DF-21D not even a HGV

 

[AssassinsMace]

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At the 30:30 mark the guy talks about how the US hasn't won a wargame simulation against China in ten years. It's actually thirty years. That last ten years the US has its latest SM missiles and they still don't win against China and all its inferiority.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

DF-21D not even a HGV

HGV can be fitted into DF 21D I am not surprise if they already did

 

[voyager1]

The position of the satellite is well known all you need is laser ranger to bounce from ship surface to locate the ship​

Blanket​

Speaking of coverage, let's take a look at what the constellation can do. Given its inclination, it is optimized to observe the environment close to China, in particular the approaches to its Pacific coast. Taipei, the capital of Taiwan, is therefore a very representative area of interest, especially since the recent rearmament efforts of the Republic of China with the United States have heightened tensions in the region.

Based on the 3D models of the satellites that Chinese TV broadcast, they don't appear to carry any radar or imaging system, so they are probably used for electronic intelligence, possibly with a communications function as well. These types of sensors generally need to see their target at an angle of incidence of at least 5 °. Based on this assumption, we can calculate Taipei's coverage over a 24-hour period:

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In cyan, the periods of coverage.


We see that the coverage is almost constant, with the longest interruption lasting around 30 minutes, and most interruptions lasting 10 minutes every half hour. The following video shows satellite position and coverage opportunities (in the form of a purple link between the satellite and the ground):



However, if we assume that the satellites carry an imaging payload, then the constraints on the angle of incidence are greater, which reduces the coverage. By taking 30 ° as the minimum angle of incidence, it then becomes:

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In cyan, the periods of coverage.


The result is much more sparse, which is all in all logical because each satellite must be much higher above the horizon to take an image. However, there is still a very high revisit rate with imaging opportunities every 30 minutes. This allows almost permanent cover, and would give China the ability to track the mobile military assets of its adversaries such as missile batteries or ships.

Plans for the future​

This revisit rate is already the highest among all known constellations in China or elsewhere, but the middle country does not intend to stop there, as academician Li Deren explains in a

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:

“The first step is to provide local (local) coverage from the South China Sea to the North China region . This requires around 20 remote sensing satellites and 1 to 3 communication satellites in geostationary orbit to achieve a time resolution of 15 minutes. High-resolution target images and sub-meter navigation and positioning accuracy are sent to users' mobile phones and other smart terminals;

The second step is regional coverage of China and neighboring countries along the Belt and Road. This requires a hundred remote sensing satellites. Among them, half of the remote sensing satellites are optical satellites and the other half are radar satellites to ensure the broadcasting of images day and night, plus 150 communication satellites;

The third stage is global . To achieve a worldwide service, it is estimated that 200 remote sensing and 300 communication satellites will be required. The service index is the time resolution of 5 minutes, that is, the required image target is found within 5 minutes, the resolution and navigation accuracy reach 0.5m, and the time In-orbit processing and communication time is less than 1 minute before being delivered to the user's mobile phone. "

Yaogan-30 is the first step, with 21 satellites optimized for the Chinese coastline. However, it does not hit a revisit every 15 minutes, so Mr. Deren may be talking about another constellation that will be launching in the near future. The use of geostationary satellites as relays, in order to minimize system latency, can however already be implemented on Yaogan-30.

Li Deren also explains that future developments will bring together the traditionally separate functions of communication, Earth observation and positioning in a single system, and that the data will be sent directly to end-user phones to minimize latency and maximize their impact:

" The perceived data will be intelligently processed to provide users with the function of PNTRC, P representing the position, N the navigation route, T the time, R the remote sensing image [Remote sensing in English], and C the communication, c ' that is, this information can be sent to the receiving device in your hand. "

This plan looks like two drops of water to the American ambitions to equip itself with a multi-layered military constellation to ensure communications, anti-ballistic missile warning and Earth observation. Given the extent of Chinese investments in the field, we must not doubt that they will manage to develop an equivalent system, and that therefore we have not finished hearing about large constellations of Chinese satellites.

Wow this is very ambitious.
But talking about so many satellites, wont that require development of a new cheap (and ideally reusable) launch vehicle to address all these requirements otherwise it would get too expensive? Thanks.

 

[Suetham]

Gee you wrote a long reply again based on your prejudice that it does not work and vulnerable to counter measure. The Chinese won't deploy the system if it so easy to fool But the fact that they declare it operational in 2011 show they have confidence of the robustness of the system. I show you that it is possible to track airplane take off from space let alone slow 30 mile /hr carrier. All you do is tracking for half an hour which is is the time from launch to target for typical missile . The indian did some simulation couple years back based on the known constellation of Chinese satellite and they come to the conclusion yes they could track a CBG. go back hundred of pages in this thread and you will find I am tired of keeping repeating ad hominem. We don't know how the system work until such time which we hope never come from now on just sit tight and pray!

You can deny all you want but the video that I show you satellite did track moving object for 5 or 6 minute and this is low grade civilian satellite imagine what a high grade military satellite can do. there is such thing as inter relay satellite that coordinate the passing satellite and sending command for the incoming satellite to focus on certain area Read this

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It has been 60 years since the Russian try and a lot of thing happened in those intervening 60 years technology speed up at warp speed

I am not being prejudiced, I just want to ask my opinion and understand how China can conclude that it can hit a CVN hundreds or even thousands of kilometers away, even with all the difficulties of a dedicated ASBM architecture. My arguments are totally focused on the technical issues of the formation of the A2 / AD of China.

First fact: For me, it doesn't matter if the Chinese are going to implement a system that works or not, I just want to understand how it would work and address technical issues without taking the merits of either party.

Second fact: The Chinese implementing the system showing that they have confidence does not tell me much or almost nothing or absolutely nothing.

Third fact: You showed the take-off of an airplane, now you cannot show me a satellite continuously accompanying a ship, and the only satellite image that I saw in previous comments was that of a CVN docking at the port.

Fourth fact: If a satellite constellation has a limited time on the target and cannot provide continuous data on a target, that constellation cannot act as target designators, a triggering solution cannot be effective based fundamentally on a network of satellites, this ASBM architecture needs external actuators like UAVs - if I'm not mistaken China is implementing these assets that may have a role in the acquisition of the target, although this may demonstrate that the ASBM system is still under construction and cannot act on its fullness due to the deficiency in external vectors. Satellites are a good starting point to ascertain a pre-designated area, but are unable to track real-time reconnaissance aircraft, surface vessels, drones, submarines and a network of maritime surveillance sensors.

Fifth fact: I have been following the Forum for about 1 year, I have read practically all the previous conversations, and all its arguments have not convinced me yet.

Sixth fact: In his later comment the following is written in bold: "We see that coverage is almost constant, with the longest interruption lasting around 30 minutes, and most interruptions lasting 10 minutes every half hour."

Do you really think this is enough to make it act as a target designator for a DF-21D during the journey to ballistic re-entry?

If you really believe that, I can consider you a very optimistic person, but that doesn't make me a pessimist.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Gee I am talking to a wall use your brain if satellite can track a plane take off with speed of 300 km/hr Why it cannot track a ship with 50km/hr?

You didn't even bother to read my post you just try to convince yourself that it does not work. I said there is relay satellite that tell the incoming satellite to focus on certain area and It take only half an hour from launch to target and the satellite can persistently observe 20 minute with photo But we might not use photo for cueing but something else in that case it almost cover 27 minute out of half an hour. I mean this is only surveillance satellite Nobody know how the actual cueing is done. One way is to release small satellite before entry and guide the ASBM as soon as it exit from plasma. Or the missile carry sensor that can search target even with plasma. But it has been tested twice and it work! All you need is 5 minute guidance from reentry to target!
The missile most likely carry inertial guidance system with update along the way. so most likely multiple guidance

Satellite position is known all along the flight path and all you need is powerful sensor be it radar or laser to fix the position of the ship

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Satellites are a good starting point to ascertain a pre-designated area, but are unable to track real-time reconnaissance aircraft, surface vessels, drones, submarines and a network of maritime surveillance sensors.

And yet you use GPS to navigate the street every day with your google or Garmin

 

[EtherealSmoke]

I got a question. If we're at the point where the Chinese are trying to sink US aircraft carriers, then aren't all gloves off by that moment? Aircraft carriers have been described as floating cities. Sinking one is full-blown war, you can't really backtrack from that. Why wouldn't the Chinese just airburst a nuke over a CBG at that point? Seems a lot easier for the Chinese and more efficient.

 

[broadsword]

I got a question. If we're at the point where the Chinese are trying to sink US aircraft carriers, then aren't all gloves off by that moment? Aircraft carriers have been described as floating cities. Sinking one is full-blown war, you can't really backtrack from that. Why wouldn't the Chinese just airburst a nuke over a CBG at that point? Seems a lot easier for the Chinese and more efficient.

In the bible or constitution? It could well be described as another large navy ship.