China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

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ougoah

Brigadier
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For years I thought Chinese satellites acting as sensor arrays could track carriers easily and have been doing so. Wasn't this hinted on about a decade ago? Would expect them to be capable to tracking small drones these days given how far computing power has come. Isn't the whole thing mainly a software challenge these days? What about a remote sensing and SAR satellite that China's been launching for several decades, precludes hardware from finding things like carriers?

Would have expected tracking small drones being the current challenge as well as playing some part in guiding ordinance whether it's anti ship ballistic missiles, HGVs, or even smaller weapons. That is something I'm sure they're working on.

People still doubt tracking carriers? What is this 1990s China? lol Everyone in the west has this idea that China's science and tech is forever 20 or 30 years behind where it really is.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
So you assumed that China only have 1 satellite you need to check with a doctor man. And you didn't prove anything as usual with your BS
1. please stop to fight with a straw man. I am sure you can find better hobby than that.
2. Make your math tutor proud, and use the knowledge. Is is not overly complicated, and easier to calculate than the heat transfer of a sheet heated on one corner.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
I don't think it is easy, can you show your math?
So, math :
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The width of the area observed parallel to the orbital track was given as approximately 450 km (250 nm) by the CIA
RORSAT altitude 230 km, so we can say the observable track is double the height of the sensor.
Means the Chinese satellite at 500 km can observe approx. 1000 km wide track.

the circumference of earth is 40000 km, so the observable part of surface will be 1/40th part of the full orbital path.

It makes full rotation in 95 minutes, so it can observe any given point of earth for 95/40 minutes , equal two minutes and 22.5 seconds .

3 minutes probably achievable , but four has very low chance, it depends on how wide the sensors can spread the track, and the amount of sensors.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
Average recon satellite takes roughly 7 days to overly the same spot, due to its orbit and rotation of earth. But due to off nadir (sideways) looking capability, revisit time (of sensor looking at a target) is usually advertised as less, as 2-3 days. (of course, the more sideways the sensor is - the greater the distance, so resolution suffers)

Assuming thus 2.5 revisit time and perfect, unison orbits for a large constellation of sats (neither may be applicable for Chinese satellite fleet right not) one might have complete coverage of earth with every point on earth being revisited every 10 minutes with a notional fleet of 360 satellites.

If 10 minutes is overkill, and one revisit each 60 minutes is enough, then 60 satellites could do the job.

But. Night time and cloud cover are still an issue. Great majority of today's high resolution satellites are optical, as precise heat finding from such distances, through atmosphere, is not really doable. Night time can take roughly 50% of the entire time during a day, depending on the time of the year and latitude.

So optical tracking during low light or no light is hard or impossible to do for optical satellites.

Furthermore, cloud cover can cause same issues. Assuming 30-50% of cloud cover at any given time and at any given area in the west pacific (that's based on a very quick meteo chart glance, it may be off) and compounded for night time, it may be that optical satellites are really trying to track targets during just 6 or so hours during a 24 hour period.

Of course this all assumes sufficient resolution for tracking. Which is actually not that demanding. While meter resolution might be needed to find and identify a target, once that is done, continued tracking of the same target would likely be achievable with smaller, cheaper satellites of lesser resolution. Within a reasonable window, of course. If large cloud cover or night time comes, tracking would cease and another round of initial finding and identification would have to be performed.

Radar based recon satellites are getting cheaper and smaller though. Just google what ICEEYE company is doing. Radar sats are getting cheap enough that constellations of dozens are planned by a commercial company, with resolution that might even be enough for identification is some situations, and one that is definitely enough to keep a track on a contact after something else has identified it.

So, one satellite identifies a contact, and then radar satellites track it during night time and adverse weather.

While I don't think we're quite there yet that satellites could monitor entire traffic in the pacific, i do believe progress is getting so quick that China might have that capability (with ever growing fleets of small form satellites, cheaper radar sats and geostationary optical sats) within the next 10 years.
 

silentlurker

Junior Member
Registered Member
RORSAT altitude 230 km, so we can say the observable track is double the height of the sensor.
Means the Chinese satellite at 500 km can observe approx. 1000 km wide track.
... So by your logic a satellite at 20000 km Can observe the entire earth simultaneously? I'm pretty sure it's not a linear equation LOL.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
So, China can place the Beidou satellite constellation in low orbit with enough satellites to cover China and the Pacific areas close to it. Now with the latest iteration it even has worldwide coverage. But according to you they cannot put an Earth observation satellite network to cover the same area with enough coverage and resolution even if the target is as large as a carrier? Right...
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
... So by your logic a satellite at 20000 km Can observe the entire earth simultaneously? I'm pretty sure it's not a linear equation LOL.

Of course not, but at this altitude the difference in sensor technology/implementation has bigger uncertainty than the error from the earth curvature.

So, China can place the Beidou satellite constellation in low orbit with enough satellites to cover China and the Pacific areas close to it. Now with the latest iteration it even has worldwide coverage. But according to you they cannot put an Earth observation satellite network to cover the same area with enough coverage and resolution even if the target is as large as a carrier? Right...

Lowest Beidou is on MEO, 22500 km height.

Not relevant from military observation capability.
 

silentlurker

Junior Member
Registered Member
Now that I think of it, the incremental gain in scan diameter decreases as you get higher, so your estimation probably over-estimates the satellite coverage slighly, assuming the parallel- track observation distance is the same.
 
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