China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread


ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
24 Avangard?! Wow that is either a gigantic ICBM or they've managed to make HGV and warheads tiny! I think this article is wrong there. I remember reading ICBMs carrying three or four Avangard at most. Hilarious levels of bullshit and inaccuracies in these national interest articles sometimes. R-28 is still a mobile ICBM not the same size as silo launched ICBMs.

KuaiZhou series can be reworked to become ICBMs but they are not going to be TELed at current sizes. DF-41 is currently China's largest mobile ICBM and if a larger carrier gets mobile it's more to do with the TEL technology as opposed to the SLV. Unless of course rocket and fuel technology just improves by that much.
 

Just4Fun

Junior Member
Registered Member
The DF-17s in parade are likely mock-ups, as real missiles are all sealed in that well maintained can environment to extend their life span(if you watch that DF-26 launching video you'll notice that its very different from the ones on parade. ), so all we get from these pictures is its shape, likely nothing else.
Does China need to make so many mock-ups? How difficult to re-seal the 16 DF-17 missiles into their storage can after the parade? How much life span could be lost after a few hours exposure in Tienanmen Square, and during the whole period of parade preparation?

From the angle they are positioned on the TEL during the parade, it is clear that the PLA wants people to have a very good view on the smooth and flat belly of the glider vehicle. Why did the PLA do this? Is it intended to assure that people can correctly identify they indeed are gliders? If the purpose is to send out an unambiguous message to American hawks, wouldn't using mock-ups compromise all the efforts?

To me, unveiling DF-17 at this particular juncture is equivalent to firing a warning shot, kind like a silent version of "Don't say I didn't warn you before anymore!" It is possible that China wants to use this opportunity to warn US hawks not to risk US naval warships to do something stupid within the striking range of DF-17, i.e., in the South China Sea and in the Taiwan Strait, because China may have sensed Trump will gamble something really big to boost his chance of re-election, given the facts that Trump's trade war can go nowhere, his Iranian sanction sucks, and a recession is on the horizon.

Trump has very strong narcissistic tendency. All of his misfortunes during his time in the White House can be traced down to his personality, overestimating his own cards, and underestimating his opponents' cards. If his yield to N. Korea, after Little Rocket Man insulted him with an H-bomb explosion and numerous missile firings, was because of his worry of China's intervention and of the vulnerability of the Eighth Army stationed in S. Korea, and if his yield to Iran, after the Turban Man insulted his by shooting down his expensive spy drone, was because of his worry of the vulnerability of US military bases in the Gulf countries, he may naively believe the US navy is immunized from enemy's attacks, thus may inadvertently use US naval warships to gamble something big. In this case scenario, the storage life span of these 16 DF-17s probably is the last thing China is concerned.

Trump has to gamble within one year and these DF-16s may have to be used for combat missions within one year, why bother to put too much emphasis on their storage life span? This seems unreasonable.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Junior Member
Registered Member
24 Avangard?! Wow that is either a gigantic ICBM or they've managed to make HGV and warheads tiny!
I've wondered why silo-based liquid fuelled missiles are so much larger and heavier than solid fuelled ones yet have the same warhead count. They have a much higher throw weight so should be able to carry multiple MIRV buses.
 

azretonov

New Member
Registered Member
You wrong.

Dont take my word.

Russia’s RS-28 “Sarmat” ten-ton payload liquid-fueled intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) will be the world’s largest nuclear strike missile when it enters production, as early as 2021. Reportedly it may carry up to fifteen 350 kiloton warheads, or up to twenty-four of the new “Avangard” nuclear-armed Hypersonic Glide Vehicle (HGV) warheads.

But since mid–2017, Chinese sources have revealed details of an even larger twenty-ton payload solid-fuel space-launch vehicle (SLV) that could form the basis for what might become the world’s largest “mobile” ICBM.

In May 2017, the now closed Chinese website ChinaSpaceFlight.com offered the first depiction of the family of solid-fuel SLVs to be offered by the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC). Seen in this image for the first time was the twenty-ton payload Kuaizhou-21, or KZ-21, and the KZ-21A, which adds two side boosters.


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I cannot take your word, nor could I take you for serious anymore. I though we were talking about the present time with actual, existing platforms rather than some rumored SLV on paper, that could be operational beyond 2025. We are not even sure if the latter is actually being designed for this particular purpose -- just a rumor floating about.
 

shanlung

Junior Member
Registered Member
I cannot take your word, nor could I take you for serious anymore. I though we were talking about the present time with actual, existing platforms rather than some rumored SLV on paper, that could be operational beyond 2025. We are not even sure if the latter is actually being designed for this particular purpose -- just a rumor floating about.
It is ok.
Feeling the same..
Will not be seeing any more of you.
 

AndrewS

Major
Registered Member
24 Avangard?! Wow that is either a gigantic ICBM or they've managed to make HGV and warheads tiny! I think this article is wrong there. I remember reading ICBMs carrying three or four Avangard at most. Hilarious levels of bullshit and inaccuracies in these national interest articles sometimes. R-28 is still a mobile ICBM not the same size as silo launched ICBMs.

KuaiZhou series can be reworked to become ICBMs but they are not going to be TELed at current sizes. DF-41 is currently China's largest mobile ICBM and if a larger carrier gets mobile it's more to do with the TEL technology as opposed to the SLV. Unless of course rocket and fuel technology just improves by that much.
I think the solid-fueled Kuaizhou series were originally based on the CASIC military rockets, which already exist in TEL versions.

A purely civilian rocket would use cheaper and higher performance liquid fuel that needs time to prep.
Only the military needs instant launch availability from solid fueled rockets.
 

Anlsvrthng

Senior Member
Registered Member
I think the solid-fueled Kuaizhou series were originally based on the CASIC military rockets, which already exist in TEL versions.

A purely civilian rocket would use cheaper and higher performance liquid fuel that needs time to prep.
Only the military needs instant launch availability from solid fueled rockets.
The solid fuel is cheaper than the liquid.
For military use it has benefits, but practically the solid is inferior in all regards compared to the liquid ones, apart from cost.
 

Broccoli

Junior Member
24 Avangard?! Wow that is either a gigantic ICBM or they've managed to make HGV and warheads tiny! I think this article is wrong there. I remember reading ICBMs carrying three or four Avangard at most. Hilarious levels of bullshit and inaccuracies in these national interest articles sometimes. R-28 is still a mobile ICBM not the same size as silo launched ICBMs.

KuaiZhou series can be reworked to become ICBMs but they are not going to be TELed at current sizes. DF-41 is currently China's largest mobile ICBM and if a larger carrier gets mobile it's more to do with the TEL technology as opposed to the SLV. Unless of course rocket and fuel technology just improves by that much.
RS-28 is a liquid-fueled missile what has size of an space rocket, so of course it can carry huge payload, remember that original R-36 Satan (RS-28 is supposed based on it) could carry over 30 warheads if needed.
 

Broccoli

Junior Member
Did theymention anything about DF-31 series missiles carrying mirvs? As far I know they only mentioned mirv capability with DF-41. I know Chinese did test DF-31 with mirvs few times but of course that doesn't mean it would a practical choice if range suffers too much.
 

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