Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36)

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taxiya

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Registered Member
ACuriousPLAFan said:
The section of the screenshotted article (which should be from an academic paper) only mentioned Mach 4. Any further parts from this academic paper which affirms that this is a hypersonic missile?
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The missile's image is clearly air-breathing hypersonic wedge shaped cruise missle. There is no other missile that fit this shape in public. Further more, the launch is at Mach 4, meaning the missile begin to accelerate from Mach 4. Hypersonic is defined as >= Mach 5. A missile that can only fly a slight bit faster than its carrier aircraft is useless.

ACuriousPLAFan said:
Also, the stated release altitude for Mach 4 release speed is at 23 kilometers, which is over 75 thousand feet. I kinda doubt this number's veracity (unless the aircraft meant to release this missile isn't the J-36, but something else entirely?)
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China in the 1960s tried to develop fighter/intercepter with top speed M2.6 and ceiling 26km. So at least 23 km is nothing extraodinary.

Is it J-36? There is a good chance. For high speed you need highly sweped wing which J-36 has. It does look so only because it does not have a long separate fuselage like conventional design. However, Mach 4 is a bit out of my imagination, 3 is something I would easily agree.
 
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ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
taxiya said:
The missile's image is clearly air-breathing hypersonic wedge shaped cruise missle. There is no other missile that fit this shape in public. Further more, the launch is at Mach 4, meaning the missile begin to accelerate from Mach 4. Hypersonic is defined as >= Mach 5. A missile that can only fly a slight bit faster than its carrier aircraft is useless.

China in the 1960s tried to develop fighter/intercepter with top speed M2.6 and ceiling 26km. So at least 23 km is nothing extraodinary.

Is it J-36? There is a good chance. For high speed you need highly sweped wing which J-36 has. It does look so only because it does not have a long separate fuselage like conventional design.
Click to expand...

Well, if the missile is to start accelerating from Mach 4 upon release (per the academic paper), that would mean the launch platform must also travel at Mach 4 at the instant of the missile's release. This is basic physics.

Sure, you have a point on altitude - But we DO know for a fact that the J-36 will not reach Mach 3, let alone Mach 4. The Guancha Gang has already stated this to be the case soon after the J-36's first flight, alongside the fact where the J-36 certainly doesn't feature pulse-detonation/rotating-detonation/rocket/combined-cycle engines in order to reach such speeds.
 
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dandelion clock

New Member
Registered Member
talonn said:
ngl I am more charmed by the J-36 despite many here saw her as ugly
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yeah, the boldness of, and the New-gen-fighter designing motivation behind the concept, and the almost self-evident capability stemming from it, is actually quite mind challenging to any battleplane fan or observer. There is one aspect bothering me though, is why this jet is not somewhat extended in length---which i think will help aesthetically, or is that a special trait for higher altitude operation?.....
 
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enroger

Senior Member
Registered Member
taxiya said:
The missile's image is clearly air-breathing hypersonic wedge shaped cruise missle. There is no other missile that fit this shape in public. Further more, the launch is at Mach 4, meaning the missile begin to accelerate from Mach 4. Hypersonic is defined as >= Mach 5. A missile that can only fly a slight bit faster than its carrier aircraft is useless.


China in the 1960s tried to develop fighter/intercepter with top speed M2.6 and ceiling 26km. So at least 23 km is nothing extraodinary.

Is it J-36? There is a good chance. For high speed you need highly sweped wing which J-36 has. It does look so only because it does not have a long separate fuselage like conventional design. However, Mach 4 is a bit out of my imagination, 3 is something I would easily agree.
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If the paper is not 水论文 then China is working on some high supersonic aircraft. They did give a range of condition, Ma 4 is upper bound and lower bound is Ma 2 at 14km altitude.

Come to think of it, if the plane can throw it at Ma 4 the missile won't even need a solid booster stage.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
enroger said:
If the paper is not 水论文 then China is working on some high supersonic aircraft. They did give a range of condition, Ma 4 is upper bound and lower bound is Ma 2 at 14km altitude.
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It is from 中国空气动力研究与发展中心, China Aerodynamic R&D establishment.
enroger said:
Come to think of it, if the plane can throw it at Ma 4 the missile won't even need a solid booster stage.
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Ramjet and Scramjet has lower thrust by mass and volume than turbojet, meaning their acceleration capability is lower. They are capable to sustain hypersonic speed, but to reach it they need something of push, so a small booster is still needed.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
ACuriousPLAFan said:
Well, if the missile is to start accelerating from Mach 4 upon release (per the academic paper), that would mean the launch platform must also travel at Mach 4 at the instant of the missile's release. This is basic physics.
Click to expand...
I would also be a bit surprised of Mach 4 for J-36.

ACuriousPLAFan said:
Sure, you have a point on altitude - But we DO know for a fact that the J-36 will not reach Mach 3, let alone Mach 4. The Guancha Gang has already stated this to be the case soon after the J-36's first flight, alongside the fact where the J-36 certainly doesn't feature pulse-detonation/rotating-detonation/rocket/combined-cycle engines in order to reach such speeds.
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Not arguing for Mach 4 for J-36, but you don't need detonation engine for Mach 4. Ramjet works up to Mach 5 at least according to Chinese papers that I have read. Beyond that you need scramjet which are the detonation engines or rocket.
 
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dingyibvs

Senior Member
ACuriousPLAFan said:
The section of the screenshotted article (which should be from an academic paper) only mentioned Mach 4. Any further parts from this academic paper which affirms that this is a hypersonic missile?

Also, the stated release altitude for Mach 4 release speed is at 23 kilometers, which is over 75 thousand feet. I kinda doubt this number's veracity (unless the aircraft meant to release this missile isn't the J-36, but something else entirely?)
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If you read the sentence above the red square it states that it's missile launch parameters, meaning at 23km altitude it can be launched at Mach 4, and at 14km altitude it can be launched at Mach 2.
 
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dingyibvs

Senior Member
enroger said:
If the paper is not 水论文 then China is working on some high supersonic aircraft. They did give a range of condition, Ma 4 is upper bound and lower bound is Ma 2 at 14km altitude.

Come to think of it, if the plane can throw it at Ma 4 the missile won't even need a solid booster stage.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's clear. My read is that both sets of numbers could be upper bounds just at different altitudes.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
dingyibvs said:
I don't think that's clear. My read is that both sets of numbers could be upper bounds just at different altitudes.
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If they’re modeling both Mach 2 14 km and Mach 4 23 km that tells you the intended design range for separation and ignition. The modest read of these parameter choices is that they want to be on the safe side and cover a wider design range just in case. The more ambitious read is that this missile if it’s real is intended to be used by both Mach 2 and Mach 4 capable aircraft, and that a Mach 4 capable attack aircraft is in the pipelines.
 
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