Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

[lcloo]

Wasn't JJ historically used for trainer variants of fighters? Ie JJ-6

J6 was originally designed as a fighter, later development of this aircraft into a fighter trainer got its designation of JJ (Fighter Trainer), they retained the prefix J for Fighter and add another J for Trainer.

JL8 was designed from the start as a trainer, thus it couldn't be designated with a J prefix for Fighter, used of JL (Jiao Lian教练）was considered as more appropriate.

For export variants of trainers converted from fighter jets, the designation is FT (Fighter Trainer), as in FT-7, FTC-2000. K-8 is an exception as it is known as Karakorum-8 as it was a joint development between China and Pakistan.

So basically, used of JJ or JL, depends on the original design from the start, was it a fighter (converted to trainer later on), or a trainer.

2 seats fighter jets are still considered as fighters with J prefix if they retain full combat capabilites of single seat Fighter. And their design was for type conversion from one fighter jet to another figher jet (example pilot qualification conversion from J10A to J11B), rather than the normal pilot training. Thus you have J11B and J11BS.

 

[Type11_atRocket]

In combat scenarios, when a stealth plane open IWB & launch missiles, won't its RCS grow significantly larger, thus gets detected immediately by enemy radars?

How do 5th gen & 6th gen aircrafts slove this problem? Or it's a problem can't be solved anyway?

This kind of task can be entrusted to CCA, I think the two-seat design is the answer given by engineers to this problem
There's some more imaginative assumptions that J36 would use the bait UAV as a standard mount and place it in the IWB, and also some PL17 for long-range attack. In this way, it would achieve ultimate survivability

 

[tphuang]

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Orca believes J-36 to be a manifestation of the AWAC with PL-17 arsenal plane concept, but not to the same extreme and a lot more survivable.

I mean that's quite clear. It's a survivable AWACS of the future that can also carry a whole bunch of munitions.

I think that most people are missing the forest for the trees when analyzing the recent combat between India and Pakistan. What got CAC engineers shitfaced drunk with happiness is not so much that their product is combat proven, but that there real life evidence that their interpretation of next generation aerial warfare is correct. J-36’s radical design and combat philosophy is actually the correct path forward.

In what way did that happen? PAF's AWACS was 300km behind the border. Most of early detection of Rafale was likely gathered by Chinese ELINT assets and the large radar station in Tibet.

In reality, PAF cannot fight the way that PLAAF would fight with J-36, because they don't have the assets for it.

 

[phrozenflame]

I mean that's quite clear. It's a survivable AWACS of the future that can also carry a whole bunch of munitions.


In what way did that happen? PAF's AWACS was 300km behind the border. Most of early detection of Rafale was likely gathered by Chinese ELINT assets and the large radar station in Tibet.

In reality, PAF cannot fight the way that PLAAF would fight with J-36, because they don't have the assets for it.

Indians thought they would do QUAD etc etc and share intel on China without repercussions. Theyre still in denial about the FO stage.

J-36 is super excessive in many ways for PAF, too expensive, probably 20-30 years out and honestly, not required. PAF isnt dealing with USAF, but InAF. As far as tactical Air assets are concerned, PAF should look to J-35 + CCAs in the decade ahead and J-XDS perhaps in 20 years from now if it is available.

I just dont see the need for J-36 and it would be operationally and logistically very inefficient and not affordable.

 

[taxiya]

Actually Chinese trainers designation is JL, not JJ, for reasons obvious to Chinese speakers.

Jiao Lian (教练) and Jian Jiao (歼教) are two different catagories in PLA. The former is a purposefully built trainer, the later is fighter converted trainer. So JJ does exist and should not be confused with JL. However JJ was made in time when China could not afford to have large fleet of dedicated trainers and has become a thing of history.

 

[Blitzo]

In what way did that happen? PAF's AWACS was 300km behind the border. Most of early detection of Rafale was likely gathered by Chinese ELINT assets and the large radar station in Tibet.

In reality, PAF cannot fight the way that PLAAF would fight with J-36, because they don't have the assets for it.

The concept of operations that the PAF utilized would be a less sophisticated version of the sort of conops that J-36 is aiming to pursue, is what I think he means, and J-36 would further emphasize and consolidate and refine that conops much much further to the bleeding edge (emphasis on networking, EW, BVR, sensors, signature reduction, combat persistence)

The idea isn't that the PAF would be able to fight the way the PLAAF would fight with J-36, but rather than the way the PAF fought is a less complex and smaller scale demonstration of what J-36 is pushing for.

 

[Gloire_bb]

Indians thought they would do QUAD etc etc and share intel on China without repercussions. Theyre still in denial about the FO stage.

J-36 is super excessive in many ways for PAF, too expensive, probably 20-30 years out and honestly, not required. PAF isnt dealing with USAF, but InAF. As far as tactical Air assets are concerned, PAF should look to J-35 + CCAs in the decade ahead and J-XDS perhaps in 20 years from now if it is available.

I just dont see the need for J-36 and it would be operationally and logistically very inefficient and not affordable.

This is a bit too much. Whether PAF can afford(or China - share) something like that is a different question (bluntly speaking, unlikely to happen), but Pakistan as a country is always under damocles sword of long range blockade.
Situation is bad enough it's listed as a pretext for nuclear use. So whether there is a usecase for very long range, broadband VLO platform, able to survive and thrive far away from any Pakistani infrastructure and information networks - the answer is most certainly yes.
But realistically this way to answer said problem is beyond Pakistan.

 

[Kich]

Why does everything has to turn into PAF getting X or getting Y?

Pakistani fanboys here and everywhere else are smoking a huge load of hopium and delusions.

Nothing is set in stone. The geopolitical environment can look completely different in a 1 or 5 years from now. Everything can change in just one election cycle. Pakistan is just one country that China happens to have good relations with. And just because they have good relations doesn't mean China should be readily handing them top notch military gears. I think even giving them J-35 is going too far and now some are taking about J-36. Like what?

Not too long ago, Pakistan was in the US camp, helping US fight in Afghanistan. It's so foolish for so many to be readily endorsing military tech transfer to them.

No one knows what the future hold? It's very possible that in the future India and China might have very warm and favorable relationship like what China has with Russia and others. In fact I can make a scenario for how that could happen. What then happens with the Pakistan relations?

This place needs to stop endorsing this tech transfer to Pakistan. Pakistan is just one country China has good relationships. And if they want high-tech military, that relationship needs to be tested with time and even more deep interactions.

One example of such deep interactions would be Pakistan allowing China to open up a military bases or inside Pakistan. That would show true dedication to their relationship. I dare say China shouldn't sell them any high-tech stuff until something like that happens.

I'm very annoyed of how Pakistani fanboys have turned everything about them. Sheesh at this point, they should hold a referendum on becoming a province of China then.

 

[Tomboy]

IMO the only way Pakistan is getting J-36s is for them to agree to have the PLA build a base with preferably both a large airfield and dock facilities so PLAAF can station a brigade of J-36s there along with a maybe a CSG or something.

 

[burritocannon]

this is a ridiculous feedback loop here, how did we go from "pakaf vindicates plaaf" to "pakaf isnt plaaf" to "pakaf could be plaaf" to now "pakaf fanboys"
you should slow down and actually try to comprehend the intent behind the posts, i think. dont just read the last post in the thread and immediately triggerpost.