Cars! Cars! Cars!

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Don't tell me someone's 'Rolla took a bump in the rear.

I managed to have the opportunity to examine and test drive the new Toyota Vensa. Its a new SUV crossover targeted at the likes of the Ford Edge. The driving experience can be described in a phrase: Camry turned Crossover.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
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China's car makers urged to learn from U.S. crisis by "thinking small"
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2009-01-03 22:14:23 Print

Special Report: Global Financial Crisis

BEIJING, Jan. 3 (Xinhua) -- There's a lesson for China's car makers in the fate of the ailing U.S. auto industry: develop smaller, fuel-efficient models instead of betting on gas-guzzlers, industry analysts have warned.

"We used to believe medium-sized cars would have the biggest market in China, but actually small cars have the greatest potential in terms of energy efficiency and price," senior engineer Chen Yilong of the Society of Automotive Engineers of China told Xinhua in December.

The U.S. auto makers' plight stemmed from their decades-old love affair with big cars while Japanese carmakers gained a stronghold by appealing to America's fuel-conscious consumers, said independent auto analyst Jia Xinguang.

"U.S. car makers should not have given up the market for small vehicles," said Jia, who urged Chinese auto makers to follow the path of Japan in terms of safe, fuel-saving technologies.

"The fall of the U.S. car industry is not a recent thing; it has been going on since the 1970s, when crude oil prices almost tripled because of output cuts by major oil producers," said Jia.

During that crisis, Japan-based Toyota expanded its presence in the United States with cheap, fuel-efficient cars. It now has surpassed most rivals with sales only second to General Motors on the U.S. market.

The most fuel-efficient U.S.-made vehicles had a combined fuel economy of 28 miles per gallon but still lagged Asian models such as the Toyota Yaris (31 mpg) and the Honda Fit (30 mpg), Forbes magazine reported in August, citing estimates of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

Such seemingly small differences might be neglected in good times but became important to consumers hit by the financial crisis, said Chen.

Detroit's "Big Three" car makers -- GM, Ford and Chrysler -- saw their sales ebb in North America in recent years. Two, GM and Chrysler, warned of collapses amid the financial crisis and got 13.4 billion U.S. dollars in government loan aid in December.

It would be an unsustainable pattern of growth for Chinese car makers to merely rely on cheap labor and low auto parts prices, Jia added.

Official data show sales of compact cars dipped in China in 2006 and 2007, when sedan sales rocketed more than 20 percent annually.

Chen attributed the decline to producers' sluggish efforts to improve vehicle performance and quality, combined with inadequate support from the government.

The best result Chinese compact cars earned in car crash tests last year was three stars out of a five-star rating system.

Better technologies are needed and the government should give policy support to hybrid vehicles using new energy sources, said Chen.

He warned that domestic brands could be disadvantaged if the technology used in compact cars didn't catch up with global rivals.

China's vehicles sales fell 14.6 percent year-on-year in November under the influence of the financial crisis. Growth in the first 11 months stood at 8.5 percent.

The National Development and Reform Commission has mapped out a plan to boost vehicle consumption, targeting an annual rise of car sales higher than the country's gross domestic product in the next three years.

The plan included cutting consumption taxes on low-emission and economical cars and supporting hybrid vehicles.
 

swimmerXC

Unregistered
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Don't tell me someone's 'Rolla took a bump in the rear.

I managed to have the opportunity to examine and test drive the new Toyota Vensa. Its a new SUV crossover targeted at the likes of the Ford Edge. The driving experience can be described in a phrase: Camry turned Crossover.

haha yeah i bumped it, actually when I was getting this car I had the choice of getting a Honda Civic, Toyota Yaris, or Toyota Corolla

Civic felt too small and cramped for me plus the auto dealer guy was a outright jerk, so it came down to the Yaris and Corolla. I really liked the Yaris (costed $15,000) cause all the parts of it are made in Japan and it felt good and stuff but the auto guys basically offered me an brand new 09 Corolla for $15,000 (it was originally $20,000) so I just took it :D

I'm guessing, mind you, I did work in the auto industry for 3 years. But I'd say $1,200 to $2000. Yikes.... depends upon if the parts are new, used or after market.

I got an estimate on it all the auto dealers are doing it here in the $600-700 range :)
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
$600-$700..That's cheap. Can they repair the bumper? I know many times the bumper is replaced.
 

swimmerXC

Unregistered
VIP Professional
Registered Member
$600-$700..That's cheap. Can they repair the bumper? I know many times the bumper is replaced.

Nope not repair they have to get a order a brand new one and replace it and repaint it, it only cost 300 for the base bumper but 300-400 for the paint and labor :(
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Yeah if you can get the Corolla for the same price as the Yaris did, it would probably be better. Although I love the 3/5 door Yaris look, its quite funky. 4 door Yaris is really a Toyota Vios, a different car, though both cars are powered by the same 1.5 liter engine.

Bumper is some kind of plastic carbonate shell. If it breaks, it has to be replaced. They don't even have an inner metal band for reinforcement anymore in order save costs and weight. These bumpers are getting bigger and more costly to replace, now covering much of the front end. This causes the metal fenders to be smaller, reducing weight further. Some of the hoods now, like in the Mazda Miata, are made with aluminum, though I'm not sure how much of Toyota is using aluminum hoods.

They keep trying to reduce weight and cost as much as they can to improve fuel economy. Cars though are not exactly getting any lighter, as more and more of the structural weight is going to the body frame to make them even stiffer, more durable and to pass crash tests.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Gents, shall I ask you a question like this. Nowadays, oil price has gone higher and higher (though it drops recently), and we all know that oil reserved on the Earth is limited. It will run out one day. Scientists are looking for new energy to replace oil.

So, what kind of future energy do you expect to power your future cars? To me, I expect electricity as the new energy.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
That would probably leave the Chinese car industry, between a rock and a hard place.

As I understand it the Chinese car industry is reliant on the domestic market, which due to cost is likely to have a preference for the combustion engine for yrs to come. THis would seriously disadvantage it from being a major playerwhen it comes to new technology for cars.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Did you read the thread properly? There are alternative energy research going on in China for both power generation and for cars. In fact, China has among the most extensive level of research and development, no less considered strategic.

Consider for example, the BYD automobile startup, whose founders are claiming that they can revolutionize the hybrid/electric car industry. Might be some fan boy's dream but they are indeed starting to produce cars and have many investors abroad. Warren Buffet himself owns 10% of this venture.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Gents, shall I ask you a question like this. Nowadays, oil price has gone higher and higher (though it drops recently), and we all know that oil reserved on the Earth is limited. It will run out one day. Scientists are looking for new energy to replace oil.

So, what kind of future energy do you expect to power your future cars? To me, I expect electricity as the new energy.


For green cars we are looking at these alternatives:

1. Hybrid, no need to explain that. This may evolve with both plug in and solar power support. Japan leading here.

2. Pure electric, with plug in support, auxiliary gas engine for charging only, and solar power. Example, the upcoming Chevy Volt.

3. Biofuel diesel. Germany appears leading here.

4. LPG. Like all the taxis in Hong Kong.

5. Alcohol/Methanol. Brazil leads in this department.

6. Coal liquification. Being heavily researched in the US and China. Naturally both have the biggest coal reserves.
 
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