Cars! Cars! Cars!


Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I am generally annoyed with cars becoming bigger and bigger. A sedan pushes at least 1500 kg nowadays empty. D segment luxury vehicles like the BMW 3 and Audi A4 usually weigh 1.8 tons. It is just needless environmental destruction and a waste of resources.

I used to be a hugeee car guy. I am not anymore. The entire industry became idiotic. Nothing about it makes any sense. Huge cars, almost standardized looks, SUVs and trucks everywhere, pretentious things like huge rims, manufacturers charging you a thousand to paint your chrome liners black (and they usually call those options cringy things like "shadow package"), etc... Only electrification is somewhat exciting to me nowadays.

Cars are getting bigger and bigger. Today the current generation Civic is bigger than an Accord used to be. The first and second generation Corolla started with a weight under 2000 lbs --- lighter than a Mazda Miata. The current Corolla weighs over 3000 lbs.

If I take the example of Toyota, the Corolla is now the smallest Toyota you can buy in North America other than the Prius. But in other regions there is a strong drive for even more economical vehicles that's under the Corolla. In my view the North American car market has gone insane. They can cancelled cheap, efficient vehicles like the Toyota Yaris and Honda Fit and then the prices of gas and commodity inflation all shot up. The average new car price in the US is over $50k and used car prices have all shot up.

In other regions there are all sorts of economical and efficient vehicles with engines from the 1.0 to 1.5 liter range.

Here's an example.


Doing the conversion rates, wtf that's a vehicle that can carry 7 people, sips gas like a Corolla, and costs under $20k USD. Repeat after me, a 7 seater for USD $20k.

Like wtf we don't have of these vehicles in North America. They're cheap, efficient in fuel and space, yet they don't lack in features. They are referred to as a category of vehicle called MPVs or Multi Purpose Vehicle. Sometimes they are also referred to as AUVs or Asian Utility Vehicle.



What is an MPV?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This is the first clear genre to arise since the SUV and since the Cross Over era. While I feel that the NA car market is distorted beyond rationality, in the Asian car markets, the MPV genre is proving it can hold it's ground against SUVs and crossovers and win, perhaps even heralding a new post SUV era.
 

sndef888

Senior Member
Registered Member
Would you believe these Mitsubishi are actually only made in the States? Yet they are also prized by the "JDM” (Japan Domestic Market) fan crowd.

Eclipse doesn't come with a six cylinder so you're not missing out on that. It comes only with a turbo 4 cylinder engine that's a detuned version of the ones used in the Lancer EVOs. Having said that the Mitsubishi 4G6x series should go down in history as among the best 4 cylinder engines ever made.

SUVs are favored for their ride height, people like to sit up and look down on things. But also for the superior easy ingress and egress of the vehicle. This matters more as you get older. This is a factor to the decreasing sales of full size "senior" sedans like the Chrysler 300 and Toyota Avalon as older people are buying SUVs instead of sedans.
SUVs are a self reinforcing cycle

It starts when some guy in a sedan gets cut off by a larger, "manlier" SUV or gets his vision blocked by tall SUVs > sedan guy gets frustrated > sedan guy buys an SUV > cycle goes on

In the end, nobody is better off and money/resources is wasted on wasteful SUVs rather than economical sedans

Very unlikely to happen but I hope China's government subsidises small sedans, hatchbacks and MPVs and taxes large SUVs unless the user can prove he really needs such a vehicle, eg: living in Tibet or rural Sichuan
 
Last edited:

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
SUVs are a self reinforcing cycle

It starts when some guy in a sedan gets cut off by a larger, "manlier" SUV or gets his vision blocked by tall SUVs > sedan guy gets frustrated > sedan guy buys an SUV > cycle goes on

In the end, nobody is better off and money/resources is wasted on wasteful SUVs rather than economical sedans

Very unlikely to happen but I hope China's government subsidises small sedans, hatchbacks and MPVs and taxes large SUVs unless the user can prove he really needs such a vehicle, eg: living in Tibet or rural Sichuan

MPVs are proven to have their own self powered organic buying attraction due to being cheaper, more spacious and more economical than SUVs. SUVs actually don't sell as well in regions populated with MPVs. For example, Mitsubishi doesn't sell the Outlander and Outlander Sport --- two SUVs that are representing Mitsubishi in the US market --- in Asia. Because these things won't sell vs. the MPV competition. MPVs are proven to sell. The Xpander here for example is a best seller in this segment.


Despite the 1.5 liter engine, I would say for a family, the Xpander is a superior choice over the Outlander Sport, or the ASX as it is known outside of the US, and the Eclipse Cross.

For China to export more cars, whether it's EV or ICE, they need to look at the MPV factor as currently Chinese vehicular exports are either pickups or crossovers. The closest to a Chinese MPV might be the Geely Okavango but it feels to me more like a Crossover with 7 seats sold at a low enough price point.

Toyota alone has the Avanza, Rush, Veloz and Innova on the MPV segment. Honda had the BRV. Suzuki has the Ertiga and others. Daihatsu also has a few. Even Hyundai is on this act.



We don't see the Creta in the US but its on the cute cross over category. For the price, I would think the Stargazer, which is the MPV, as a better choice for a family vehicle.

In Asia and other parts of the world, you will see PPVs. PPVs are a class section with SUVs called Pickup Platform Vehicles. Meaning they are based off a pickup. An example of a PPV in the US is the Sequoia. Another is the Suburban and the Expedition. Underneath they have a ladder in frame structure as opposed to a unitary frame.

PPVs are also popular in Asia. You have the Fortuner based off the Hilux, the Nissan Terra off the Navarre, the Ford Everest off the Ranger, the Isuzu Mu-X over the D-Max. You don't hear about these vehicles as they are not exported to the US as they are powered by turbo diesels.

PPVs have been riding the SUV wave for a long time. But when compared to MPVs, the MPVs have more room, easier to drive and park, more maneuverable, more fuel efficient, has better ride, and are significantly cheaper. That's plenty of plus for the MPV side, and I expect that year after year, MPVs will continue to whittle down on SUV and PPV market share.
 

Top