Anyone know the technical detail behind this choice? From what infos I gathered, soryu seems lost the competition because of low reserve buoyancy, Li battery and short service life. Some source also stated it has a way too large crew for its size which also result in limited internal space. All these speculations are un-official so take a grain of salt. I hope they didn't make the choice just because it's different from what their former PM would make.
Australian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
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Mr T
Senior Member
True. But Australia is pushing for all 12 to be built locally, even if it takes longer. Will the French unions allow it, or will they strike and try to hold DCNS ransom and insist some are built in France?
One of the shortcomings with soryu that I heard is "the lengthening by 6 to 8 meters to accommodate more fuel tanks to meet the range requirement".
My limited knowledge of hydrodynamics comes from building model boats in my teen ages. It tells me that an almost 10% increase of length will greatly change the center of weight/buoyancy of the boat, so all sorts of design issues as weight distribution, sail placement, control planes etc. will come. That is almost like a new design. The Collins class suffered exactly the same chain of problems. One will also know how great impact one kilogram on the wrong place has to a scuba diver who is just a human submarine.
The same doubt goes to the German offer, the template is less than 2000 tone, while the target is 4000 tone. A new design again.
The French offer is closest to the target with a design in service. The external modification could be minimum, or nothing at all (all modification being internal). I heard the displacement was reduced from 4700 to 4500.
So my summary is as following (excluding any political and strategic considerations):
French offer:
Pro: Mature tech, closest to requirement. +1
Pro: Track records of sales and building in foreign countries. +1
German offer:
Con: Essentially a new design only on paper so far, although based on mature tech (nothing new introduced). -1
Pro: Track records of sales and building in foreign countries. +1
Japanese offer:
Con: Almost a new design on par to German offer, new tech (battery, not currently used by Japan in the proposed scale to Australia). Double risks. -1 -0.5 = -1.5
Con: No track records as France and Germany. Note, customer does not care why. -1
So to me France is clearly the best option.
But, I believe that political and strategic considerations played equally important roles in the favor of France (and Germany for that matter).
IIRC, there are airliners, cargo planes, special task aircraft that have variant which basically increase length to accommodate more passenger/cargo/equipment and we know aircraft are sensitive to the center of weight/lift. I don't think lengthen the hull for 6 to 8 meters will be that big of a deal unless Australian are extremely caution and conserve here. It need some modification, relocation some weight but we can expect Japanese can do some decent hull building right?
From what you could read in the specialized press Japanese have the best technology after US in that matter. Maybe they didn't want to share it with Australia 100% and wanted the crucial steps to be ommited from contract?
I sincerely doubt DCNS would do that, as DCNS was fully aware that local production is a vital prerequisite for the contract.
Brumby
Major
I think a couple of main problems standout. Japan do not have an established record of such joint build effort unlike the French. Secondly the French product has the closest product offering in terms of an existing design. The Australians will be taking on the US combat system in any case and so probably will mitigate some of the technology offerings from the japanese.
You may be right, but it seems that Collins class suffered a lot along that path. The Swedish is very competent in submarine building too and would be no less eager to see the modification succeeding.
Most importantly, the airliners are commercial, customers will not buy a stretched version on paper, and they can wait or just buy a mature (short) version although not optimum, but the navy can not.
Anyway, it is just my personal opinion.
On the political front:
1. The ousting of Tony Abbot opened the door to Europeans, due to the domestic pressure to have jobs in Australia. That put Japan on equal footing with Europe. I think Japan began to be less enthusiastic in the deal.
2. The recent shifting of Obama's policy regarding Installation of US weapon systems on European built subs. This is some kind of turning point or the final "go ahead".
1. The ousting of Tony Abbot opened the door to Europeans, due to the domestic pressure to have jobs in Australia. That put Japan on equal footing with Europe. I think Japan began to be less enthusiastic in the deal.
2. The recent shifting of Obama's policy regarding Installation of US weapon systems on European built subs. This is some kind of turning point or the final "go ahead".
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