AUKUS News, Views, Analysis.

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
That's not a very nice thing to say about men and women who are proud to serve in the US military. No one is repressed or forced to join, regardless of their race. I think you shouldn't be so disrespectful.

Its not about whats nice to say or not. Fighting in the US military was the way many African Americans earned their way out of slavery (40 acres and the mule). Today, nobody is forced to join the US military at gunpoint, (thankfully) but its still one of the limited paths to social mobility for african americans and other visible minorities (as witnessed through the racial protests of BLM).

The truth doesnt care about whats nice, thats why its the truth. Get over it.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Today, nobody is forced to join the US military at gunpoint, (thankfully) but its still one of the limited paths to social mobility for african americans and other visible minorities (as witnessed through the racial protests of BLM).

The truth doesnt care about whats nice, thats why its the truth. Get over it.
Mate, you're the one that was denigrating ethnic minorities - including the descendants of Chinese immigrants - who were happy to join the US military.

I know it makes you feel better believing the US is so racist hardly anyone from a minority group would choose to join military if they had other options, but that doesn't make you right.

Look, you can believe whatever you like in your head, just park your prejudice when we're talking about people who put their lives on the line for their country, ok?
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Mate, you're the one that was denigrating ethnic minorities - including the descendants of Chinese immigrants - who were happy to join the US military.

I know it makes you feel better believing the US is so racist hardly anyone from a minority group would choose to join military if they had other options, but that doesn't make you right.

Look, you can believe whatever you like in your head, just park your prejudice when we're talking about people who put their lives on the line for their country, ok?
Lol rich coming from you. You should park your own prejudice before you preach your moral indignation against anyone on this forum.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Lol rich coming from you. You should park your own prejudice before you preach your moral indignation against anyone on this forum.
Feel free to quote me where I've ever denigrated serving members of a country's military on the basis of their ethnicity or some other personal charactistic.

I may not like every military around the world, but I don't make attacks based on colour, creed or race.

Again, if you wish to assert differently, quote me. If you can't, don't try to deflect from the behaviour of other forum members that I'm referring to, especially when I'm asking them nicely to put aside their prejudices to help enable the sort of reasonable discussion this forum was set up for. This isn't a safe-space for critics of US geopolitics to make snide comments about ethnic minorities.
 

yungho

Junior Member
Registered Member
Because, depending on the circumstances, it could be strategically advantageous to do so.

China has a huge stockpile of first-strike (conventional) weapons, more than Japan and South Korea combined. There's no reason for either to attack first and not only face the Chinese response but also lose the moral high ground.

Can you safely say no Chinese government in the future would decide a first strike would help it win a conflict? Do you even know who's going to succeed Xi or the rest of the Standing Committee? Xi isn't going to live forever.


Japan getting involved in a Taiwan war is not necessarily an attack on China. Japan's involvement could fall within a huge range, and none of them would be likely to involve a first strike on China.

If China wanted to wait until the US and other countries like Japan had formally announced a military intervention before firing a single missile, fair enough. But that would give up an advantage that a first strike has, and potentially pass the initiative to the US/Coalition. It's very possible, I would say more likely than not, that China would assume an outside intervention would happen and make attacks on Okinawa, Guam and elsewhere first. An attack on Okinawa would be an attack on Japan.


That's a strawman from you. I never said it would. I said that it would be extreme to use WMD against non-nuclear nations. Nuclear weapons are to deter nuclear conflict, not win conventional wars.

Is this where we play the make-believe game that China occupying islands/atols and building military bases with missile batteries, after Xi said he would not militarise the SCS, is not aggressive?

If we're talking about the future, I imagine control shipping in/around South East Asia would be one. Again, hypothetical scenario. A future Chinese government may take action it argues is necessary or reasonable but other countries see as aggressive.

You mean respect the rights of a sovereign nation to develop military technology China already has?

It would depend why they left. If they were no longer welcome then quite obviously the countries that just asked them to leave would have no reason to change their policy on nuclear weapons.

Then again if the US unilaterally pulled out even when South Korea and Japan wanted it to stay, the reaction would be quite different.

I see. Is another part of the make-believe game where I have to pretend that RCEP isn't a free trade agreement? Or where I forget that South Korea and China have applied to join CPTPP, of which Japan is a member but the US isn't?

Again, that's another strawman from you. I never mentioned domination. Rather it was you that implied China might use nuclear weapons despite the fact neither South Korea nor Japan have them currently.
I think you assume wrongly about how much China cares about the first strike advantage. China imo will not strike first and lessen it's 'moral high ground'. In the event of a Taiwan invasion, the pressure will be on Japan and Korea to respond following the US response. It does not make sense for China to make that decision for them when the outcome is uncertain.

The only thing I really see China doing is taking over the Senkaku Islands, but even then I don't think that's realistic and that would only come after a hostile Japanese response.

In terms of the SCS, I believe it was Vietnam who had the 'first strike' with militarizing the SCS and China was responding accordingly. Frankly, I think it was inevitable and I am happy to see China exerting it's claim over the SCS, regardless of muh right or wrong.

In regards to the ethnicity of the US military, it is more-so to do with the built-in situations and predicaments that lead to higher rates of black or latino enlistment. Why do more visible minorities join the military? I think we all know. I respect their decision, but you can't be oblivious to the reasonings that most people join. Especially with how the US military markets itself.
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
I think you assume wrongly about how much China cares about the first strike advantage. China imo will not strike first and lessen it's 'moral high ground'. In the event of a Taiwan invasion, the pressure will be on Japan and Korea to respond following the US response. It does not make sense for China to make that decision for them when the outcome is uncertain.

The only thing I really see China doing is taking over the Senkaku Islands, but even then I don't think that's realistic and that would only come after a hostile Japanese response.

In terms of the SCS, I believe it was Vietnam who had the 'first strike' with militarizing the SCS and China was responding accordingly. Frankly, I think it was inevitable and I am happy to see China exerting it's claim over the SCS, regardless of muh right or wrong.

In regards to the ethnicity of the US military, it is more-so to do with the built-in situations and predicaments that lead to higher rates of black or latino enlistment. Why do more visible minorities join the military? I think we all know. I respect their decision, but you can't be oblivious to the reasonings that most people join. Especially with how the US military markets itself.

The way you are trying to frame Vietnam just shows how easy is it to fabricate a situation where you are just 'responding accordingly'.
 

KampfAlwin

Junior Member
Registered Member
The way you are trying to frame Vietnam just shows how easy is it to fabricate a situation where you are just 'responding accordingly'.
It’s not like Vietnam is innocent here too. Not sure about the militarization part, but they’ve been building islands long before China started doing it. They also have overlapping claims with Phillipines, Taiwan etc.

All in all, this does weaken the narrative of a ‘free and open’ SCS, primarily because the US and allies do not want to aggravate other non-Chinese claimants as they need them as potential allies against China. They don’t really care about who owns the SCS for now, as long as it is not China.
 
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Pmichael

Junior Member
It’s not like Vietnam is innocent here too. Not sure about the militarization part, but they’ve been building islands long before China started doing it. They also have overlapping claims with Phillipines, Taiwan etc.

All in all, this does weaken the narrative of a ‘free and open’ SCS, primarily because the US and allies do not want to aggravate other non-Chinese claimants as they need them as potential allies against China. They don’t really care about who owns the SCS for now, as long as it is not China.

China's Nine-dash lines has no standing and is imperialistic in nature. So in reality any actions taken by Vietnam and other countries in the region is 'responding accordingly'.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
China's Nine-dash lines has no standing and is imperialistic in nature. So in reality any actions taken by Vietnam and other countries in the region is 'responding accordingly'.
Nice trolling. Vietnam started well before China with building islands.
But no worries, Vietnam will eventually get what it deserves.

Cambodia's naval base for China is merely the first part of China's strategy to box Vietnam in
 
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